Question about Powder selection - Specifically Lee Reloading Manual

[Don Quixote]

I am trying to work work up some loads for 44 Spcl and later 44 mag. The Lee reloading manual has various powders that can be used. I have 2 of them at my disposal. Autocomp and Bullseye.

I know the manual lists them in order of velocity at max charge. I am loading just for target shooting / plinking, so "stopping power " or terminal ballistics are not very important. Accuracy is.

Faster bullet means flatter shooting typically but at the shorter pistol distances, is this really a problem?

Should I always use the faster loads when possible? Does that necessarily translate to better groups?

[MT1]

At pistol range distances I doubt you'll notice any difference. Depending on the powder, the charge, barrel length, and primer you'll soon find yourself more interested in figuring out which powder leaves less fouling, doesn't create a huge cloud of smoke. and burns completely.

[Pilot321]

Just for target shooting I prefer light to medium loads. I will crank it up sometimes to simulate full power defense loads. ' However, faster doesn't mean better or more accurate for pistol shooting. Start low, and work up, and you'll find what your gun likes, and then use that.

[bamboomaster]

I am trying to work work up some loads for 44 Spcl and later 44 mag. The Lee reloading manual has various powders that can be used. I have 2 of them at my disposal. Autocomp and Bullseye.

I know the manual lists them in order of velocity at max charge. I am loading just for target shooting / plinking, so "stopping power " or terminal ballistics are not very important. Accuracy is.

Faster bullet means flatter shooting typically but at the shorter pistol distances, is this really a problem?

Should I always use the faster loads when possible? Does that necessarily translate to better groups?

Can't help you with the 44 Spcl, but here are some plinking loads for 44 Rem Mag that I tested in a Model 1894S Marlin. Yeah, I know it's not a pistol, but they were a hoot to shoot at 25 yds. I brought it to one of the PAFOA shoots last year and you could shoot it all day long without complaining.

44 Rem Mag Test Targets.jpg

Here's the basic load information that I used (check your resources first to see if it is suitable and safe in your firearm):

Bullet: 240 gn LSWC
Brass: Various
Powder: Unique (note charge information on targets)
Primer: CCI 300
OAL: 1.608"
Crimp: .4531

Note: Faster loads (more powder, longer barrel, more foot-pounds of energy, more recoil, etc) do not necessarily produce the better groups. There's usually an accurate load at a lower velocity and an accurate load at a higher velocity, depending on what you're shooting and of course, the distance you're shooting. If the load is for plinking (not hunting) and you want to shoot all day, these loads work fine in the Marlin lever-action.

All other things being equal, for the same aiming point, the faster a bullet is, the longer it takes for gravity to pull it to the ground. You'll particularly note this at long distances where folks like to keep their bullets supersonic out to 1000 yds. - less effect by wind and a stronger counter to Newton's Law. But Newton always wins...

For pistol distances, the only thing that matters is your fun quotient and how you like the combination of accuracy, recoil, etc.

You will have to clean your gun after shooting loads with Unique...

But you already know that is true with Bullseye powder too.

I think the lower velocity Elmer Keith load was 5.0 grains of Bullseye which in lever-action rifle tests, produced a velocity of 927 fps, SD of 9.4, and group size of 1.85". These groups are far better....

The 8.0 grain load of Unique goes out at around 1187 fps, which in a my Marlin is only light push of recoil with the Marlin. The 7.2 grain load of Unique produces very little "felt" recoil. You have to think about it to imagine there was any recoil.

Some folks use 5 grains of Clays, but the powder wasn't available at the time I shot these targets.

Have fun with this project!

[Don Quixote]

Can't help you with the 44 Spcl, but here are some plinking loads for 44 Rem Mag that I tested in a Model 1894S Marlin. Yeah, I know it's not a pistol, but they were a hoot to shoot at 25 yds. I brought it to one of the PAFOA shoots last year and you could shoot it all day long without complaining.

Here's the basic load information that I used (check your resources first to see if it is suitable and safe in your firearm):

Bullet: 240 gn LSWC
Brass: Various
Powder: Unique (note charge information on targets)
Primer: CCI 300
OAL: 1.608"
Crimp: .4531

Note: Faster loads (more powder, longer barrel, more foot-pounds of energy, more recoil, etc) do not necessarily produce the better groups. There's usually an accurate load at a lower velocity and an accurate load at a higher velocity, depending on what you're shooting and of course, the distance you're shooting. If the load is for plinking (not hunting) and you want to shoot all day, these loads work fine in the Marlin lever-action.

All other things being equal, for the same aiming point, the faster a bullet is, the longer it takes for gravity to pull it to the ground. You'll particularly note this at long distances where folks like to keep their bullets supersonic out to 1000 yds. - less effect by wind and a stronger counter to Newton's Law. But Newton always wins...

For pistol distances, the only thing that matters is your fun quotient and how you like the combination of accuracy, recoil, etc.

You will have to clean your gun after shooting loads with Unique...

But you already know that is true with Bullseye powder too.

I think the lower velocity Elmer Keith load was 5.0 grains of Bullseye which in lever-action rifle tests, produced a velocity of 927 fps, SD of 9.4, and group size of 1.85". These groups are far better....

The 8.0 grain load of Unique goes out at around 1187 fps, which in a my Marlin is only light push of recoil with the Marlin. The 7.2 grain load of Unique produces very little "felt" recoil. You have to think about it to imagine there was any recoil.

Some folks use 5 grains of Clays, but the powder wasn't available at the time I shot these targets.

Have fun with this project!

Tanks.... good info. I will be loading on a lee with the disk so I will try various loads and see what works best.

[cephas]

My best loads fall below max. Probably because I'm more comfortable with them and they shoot better than I can.
Awhile back I was working with Bullseye in the 44 mag with cast bullets. Won't tell you how low I went, but found using a chromo that anything under 5 grains gives quite a bit of deviations. Standard practice be careful. Big case, fast powder, easy to double charge.
If you come up with something using the autocomp please post. Very little real time info on it in the 44 mag.

[Twoboxer]

Tanks.... good info. I will be loading on a lee with the disk so I will try various loads and see what works best.

Bamboomaster gave you a great rundown...to which I want to add one thing.

Sometimes muzzle velocity can be used to bring POI to the POA you see over your sights. Contrary to the obvious truth that "the faster the MV the smaller the drop", faster pistol MVs can LOWER the POI rather than raise it. The faster the bullet, the less time in the barrel, the less it is affected by barrel rise due to recoil.

By choosing an accurate load rather than a hotter load, there's no doubt you save money as well as wear and tear on your brass, pistol, and you.

[Don Quixote]

If you come up with something using the autocomp please post. Very little real time info on it in the 44 mag.

I found this load on winchesters page. Seems pretty stout consider Imjse 4.6'gns with 124 LRN in my 9mm. Ill try it and post. Unfortunately it may take some time. The indoor range I belong to does not allow Magnum rounds. Will have to wai until I can get to the oitdoor range.

[bamboomaster]

Bamboomaster gave you a great rundown...to which I want to add one thing.

Sometimes muzzle velocity can be used to bring POI to the POA you see over your sights. Contrary to the obvious truth that "the faster the MV the smaller the drop", faster pistol MVs can LOWER the POI rather than raise it. The faster the bullet, the less time in the barrel, the less it is affected by barrel rise due to recoil.

By choosing an accurate load rather than a hotter load, there's no doubt you save money as well as wear and tear on your brass, pistol, and you.

You are "bang-on" about the recoil issue, for different shooters have different preferences regarding what works for them - that's one more reason why we reload.


On the matter of the OP's query for .44 SPL loads, I paged through a few of my 21 reloading manuals. Many of them are historical (and I'm nowhere that old) and it's interesting to read their points of view at the time they were written.

From "The Complete Guide to Handloading" (1937):

"The .44 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge is probably the most desirable of the entire run of big-bore handgun cartridges, particularly from the standpoint of the reloader. It is somewhat longer than the .44 S&W Russian and is capable of the finest accuracy possible in any caliber above .38. The cartridge case was particularly designed for target shooting and for proper combustion of powder. It was originally a black-powder cartridge, but it seems to perform about as well with smokeless powder as one might desire. A wide range of bullets is available in this caliber, and a great many shooters who like to play with the .44 Secial and the .44/40 make a practice of having a spare cylinder to enable them to change from one to the other. The barrels measure identically the same, and therefore bullets adapted to one caliber can be readily used in the other. This is not true, of course, of powder charges. Watch your loading carefully.

Of the group of big bores, there is perhaps the widest variety of handloads available in this caliber, due to the fact that it has been so highly specialized over a long period of years. The tabulation below lists more than 160 different loads. In addition, there are many dozens of bullets which are not included in the following data, chiefly because tested ballistic data are not available. The cartridge was designed for smokeless powder loading not exceeding 15,000 pounds, at is well to heed this level. Cartridge cases are of the semi-balloon type of construction; the primer pocket projects into the powder cavity of the cartridge case. This type of construction does not create the extreme strength possible with the modern solid-head form as exemplified in automatic pistol cartridges and in the current run of .38 Specials. Cases should be resized at frequent intervals, although one may get as many as eight or ten normal loads out of a single cartridge case before it swells to the point of sticking in the chambers. Under ordinary circumstances, two or three reloadings without full-length resizing will create this problem. A single cartridge case sticking in the chamber creates no serious extraction problem, but when all six chambers are so filled, it is extremely difficult to withdraw the fired shells."

And a few of their 160+ loads:

235 grain lead bullet

3.0 gn Bullseye: 628 fps
4.5 gn Bullseye: 790 fps, 10,900 PSI
5.3 gn Bullseye: 875 fps, 15,000 PSI


5.0 gn Unique: 710 fps
7.0 gn Unique: 895 fps, 11,500 PSI
8.1 gn Unique: 1005 fps, 15,000 PSI

And from the Speer Reloading Manual (3rd edition, 1960)

250 grain LSCW (test gun a 1950 Model S&W, with groups running 3 1/4" to 3 1/2" at 50 yds):

7.0 gns Unique - 790 fps
8.0 gns Unique - 928 fps
9.0 gns Unique - 1043 fps (most accurate)

And the Speer Reloading Manual #14 (2007):

240 gn LSWC:

5.7 gns Unique - 746 fps
6.3 gns Unique - 820 fps (Maximum Charge)

4.7 gns Bullseye - 691 fps
5.2 gns Bullseye - 793 fps (Maximum Charge)

It's interesting to note the divergence of recommended loads across these manuals for Unique and Bullseye (and many other powders) over time. There are perhaps a few reasons for that one of which may include that velocity and pressure measuring devices have greatly improved and that some recently formulated powders are faster today than they may have been 50-80 years ago.

Or that guns were better built 80 years ago than they are today (tongue-in cheek remark).

But I think the one that matters most is that now reloading manuals may be written/reviewed by lawyers concerned with the inherent liability attached to reckless/unsafe/"I want more recoil!" reloaders.

It's always a great idea to consult a variety of loading manuals as you work-up your loads. Start with the recommended minimum load and work up from there..

Anyways, just a walk through history...

[Don Quixote]

I will be shooting them out of a 44 Mag so that gives me some margin for error. Znot that I ant to reload them very hot anyway.

That ks for the great info.

I am really liking this new "project"