Take down does not require pulling the trigger. What's the big deal?

[Bang]

Writers for gun magazines and knowledgeable instructor types cast aspersions on the need to pull the trigger on a Glock (for example) in order to remove the slide. Certain brands capitalize on it by stating theirs can be serviced with pulling the trigger. How come no one makes a big deal out of pulling the trigger during dry fire sessions?

[dkf]

I just don't see how it is so difficult to make sure the gun is clear before pulling the trigger. I have gotten into the habit of racking the slide a few times and glancing into the chamber (with the mag out) before pulling the trigger. I hate the big bulge you end up with on the side of pistols for the takedown lever, like the Glock setup.

[Carnes]

Potty-Rhetoric.

Pulling the trigger is 'scary', OOoooOOOoo!

Just a marketing ploy some manufacturers use to compete against a competent competitor.

They assume you are just one of the stupid individuals that make up the masses, and that you are too undisciplined to follow the basics of firearms safety.

Yeah, in any given year there are a few idiots that can't be safe, but the rest of us should not allow that to compromise our ability to have the most effective portable kenetic delivery systems available.

Any gun, even a musket, is only as safe as its operator.

Only complacent people rely on a physical device to account for their potential for poor judgment.

[philadelphia patriot]

I have no problem with having to pull the trigger to disassemble a Glock. My problem is with their stupid slide locks.

[Mitch10mm]

I clean my Glocks at the range they're sooo dangerous !

[KCJones]

Potty-Rhetoric.

Pulling the trigger is 'scary', OOoooOOOoo!

Just a marketing ploy some manufacturers use to compete against a competent competitor.

They assume you are just one of the stupid individuals that make up the masses, and that you are too undisciplined to follow the basics of firearms safety.

Yeah, in any given year there are a few idiots that can't be safe, but the rest of us should not allow that to compromise our ability to have the most effective portable kenetic delivery systems available.

Any gun, even a musket, is only as safe as its operator.

Only complacent people rely on a physical device to account for their potential for poor judgment.

Completely agree. I just don't see the issue, and if you're taking down the gun without clearing it, the gun isn't the problem...

[QuackXP]

There have been documented cases of negligent discharges including LEO's although I'm not sure if any fatalities have been attributed to it when the trigger was pulled when field striping a Glock.

This should not happen as removing the magazine, locking the slide, and visually and physically inspecting the chamber and magazine well for any ammunition is standard procedure before maintenance. This is even documented in Glock's own documentation.

https://us.glock.com/documents/gun_maintenance.pdf

Some other companies like to key in on these rare ND cases and note that you don't have to pull the their pistols.

One of my complaints about the M&P series of pistols is that they put in a little lever to move the sear out of the way so "you dont have to pull the trigger" using this lever is much more of a pain vs inspecting the firearm and pulling the trigger and add an unnecessary failure point to the firearm. However I personally liked the M&P ergonomics vs the Glock so I let this small fault go.

[KCJones]

There have been documented cases of negligent discharges including LEO's although I'm not sure if any fatalities have been attributed to it when the trigger was pulled when field striping a Glock.

This should not happen as removing the magazine, locking the slide, and visually and physically inspecting the chamber and magazine well for any ammunition is standard procedure before maintenance. This is even documented in Glock's own documentation.

https://us.glock.com/documents/gun_maintenance.pdf

Some other companies like to key in on these rare ND cases and note that you don't have to pull the their pistols.

One of my complaints about the M&P series of pistols is that they put in a little lever to move the sear out of the way so "you dont have to pull the trigger" using this lever is much more of a pain vs inspecting the firearm and pulling the trigger and add an unnecessary failure point to the firearm. However I personally liked the M&P ergonomics vs the Glock so I let this small fault go.

Yeah, that sear lever is a PITA. My wife always just had trouble with it and always had trouble taking the gun down until I said "or just pull the trigger" ... then she was fine. She was taught to disassemble/clean the gun only after first clearing it, locking the slide open, inserting an ECI, and removing all mags/ammo from the work table area entirely ... So I'm not real worried about her 'pulling the trigger'...

[ShooterInPA1]

I think the Pont is that if there are 10 million Glocks out there and 99.9% of people perform the Takedown properly, then you still have 10,000 ND's.

[KCJones]

I think the Pont is that if there are 10 million Glocks out there and 99.9% of people perform the Takedown properly, then you still have 10,000 ND's.

I do see your point, and it's a good one. Thanks.

But to me the real point isn't whether the sear lever is used or the trigger pulled: The point is doing a takedown with a round chambered is a foul up, period. Put another way, you are -exactly- correct: Those are 'negligent' not 'accidental' discharges. If you shoot yourself or someone else via ND, it's still a bad thing and I'd like to see it never happen. But fact remains YOU were negligent, not the firearm.

Take for example my daily-carry pistol - H&K VP9. In theory, there is no need to either pull trigger or use a 'sear lever' to do takedown. BUT, the reality is you're not getting that slide off without pulling the trigger until you have at least a few thou rounds through it to loosen it up. Is this a design flaw? Is the glock "better"? Or should we just double-down on "clear the gun before trying to clean it, dope!"...

(and yes, I know there are far fewer VP9's out there than Glocks)