NCIC updated system-ltcf info when police run your DL?

[Roland45]

from what I have read, here and other sites, the new updates to the ncic system were implemented on 10-01-16.
here's the site with the info
https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/10/0...-through-ncic/

I have a few questions about the new system updates that automatically give the officer your ltcf info when they run your DL.

Does the new update change any existing laws?, such as a duty to inform the PSP if asked about weapons in a vehicle, or on your person,
compared to local police, constables, ect. asking the same question?

if pulled over and given the response of no when asked this question, will that give the local police a valid reason to search me or the vehicle?
like " I ran your dl and see that you hold a valid pa ltcf, are you sure there no weapons in the vehicle? "


How was the update funded? updates cost me money, I am sure this one cost money, where did the funds come from? Who voted to appropriate the funds, and are they running for office this election year?

Who do we contact to get an answers about the update and how it will effect ltcf holders in pa. state reps? state legislators?
or wait for someone to press a lawsuit?

I would be grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction.

[streaker69]

If this is truly happening, it's worse than the blog posts reports. If that information is in NCIC, that means every LEO in the country has access to that info. If other states are using LPR systems similar to PA's implementation, that would mean just by scanning the plates going by a cop would be able to see who has an LTCF. That would mean they have the potential to pull people over in the firearm restrictive states for a fishing expedition.

[MedicCop]

The terms CLEAN and NCIC are often used (incorrectly) interchangeably when it comes to querying persons or items. CLEAN (Commonwealth Law Enforcement Assistance Network) is the conduit through which all queries flow to NCIC in Pennsylvania. The LTCF response is a CLEAN-level transaction, meaning that agencies outside of PA will not get that particular response when running a query. The information stays at the state level.

Also, the blog post indicates the LTCF information is linked to DL's, not vehicle registrations.

[Gun]

If this is truly happening, it's worse than the blog posts reports. If that information is in NCIC, that means every LEO in the country has access to that info. If other states are using LPR systems similar to PA's implementation, that would mean just by scanning the plates going by a cop would be able to see who has an LTCF. That would mean they have the potential to pull people over in the firearm restrictive states for a fishing expedition.

Yes, and having an LTCF means that an occupant (or driver) is a criminal, justifying the fishing expedition.

[Roland45]

medic,
Here is the core purpose of the CLEAN system that you speak of.

B) CLEAN CORE PURPOSE
1) In the furtherance of officer safety and the administration of justice; ensure the
secure delivery of timely, accurate and relevant criminal justice information to
authorized agencies.

I read nothing that states this info stays at state level, "accurate and relevant criminal justice information to
authorized agencies."

here is the link where I found the core purpose.
http://www.chesco.org/DocumentCenter/View/677

When did PA LTCF holders become a hindrance for "officer safety and the administration of justice"?

And last but not least ,

D) FUNCTION OF CLEAN
1) The CLEAN system maintains accessible files on Stolen Vehicles, Stolen Vehicle
Parts, Stolen License Plates, Wanted/Missing Persons, and Protection from
Abuse Orders. These same records are also forwarded to and accessible at
NCIC. Other “Hot File”records are forwarded to NCIC.
2) The CLEAN system is not the Central Repository for Computerized Criminal
History Record Information “CCHRI

I do not see anything about lawful carry of firearms , or LTCF holders info being part of the function of CLEAN.

It would seem that the new updates have made the CLEAN system an entity that no longer follows it own core values,
or even the function it was originally intended for.

So ill ask again, what exactly does this mean for PA LTCF holders, and why is the info given automatically with out expressing a reason for the search?
Before the update any officer could request the info, With cause, and get it. all of a sudden no cause is needed ???
Who do we contact to get these questions answered? Legislators? state reps? Congress personnel? The PSP commissioner? the Gov?

[streaker69]

1) The CLEAN system maintains accessible files on Stolen Vehicles, Stolen Vehicle
Parts, Stolen License Plates, Wanted/Missing Persons, and Protection from
Abuse Orders. These same records are also forwarded to and accessible at
NCIC. Other “Hot File”records are forwarded to NCIC.

That right there is a problem. If the PSP is linking LTCF info into CLEAN, which is linked to NCIC, that would mean that other state LEO's also have access to that information.

[ungawa]

So I'm in a database with criminals and stolen cars. Great.

[MedicCop]

So I'm in a database with criminals and stolen cars. Great.

And everybody with a driver's license.

[Hodgie]

So I'm in a database with criminals and stolen cars. Great.

I'm sure we are all in one of Hillary's hacked databases too.

[GunLawyer001]

Perhaps someone should ask the CLEAN folks if this is true. It would be a shame if folks expended resources in Quixotic attempts at having their NFA trust try to Form 1 a new machinegun based on a shaky legal theory, or otherwise relied on a blog post that relied on 3rd-hand info. Just ask them. 717-783-5575 It's either true, or not true. Some due diligence is in order before PAFOA gets dragged into it.

BTW, I doubt that any court would find that disclosing LTCF info to a bona fide LEO in the course of his duties would be considered to be an unlawful disclosure. They tend to look at "public" disclosures, not disclosures to other agents of the state for official purposes. Publishing a list of LTCF holders in the local paper would be illegal in PA. Telling a cop that a detained person has an LTCF would not be. Somewhere in the middle, maybe where a computer beeps every time an LTCF holder drives by, you hit "unlawful territory".