Universal backround checks, consider this !!!!!!

[Mitch10mm]

I don't know why the price would go up.

[GunLawyer001]

No, I have nothing concrete. It is only a possible consequence that potentially could happen. Should an expanded background law pass, FFL holders could charge any fee they desire. However, I could think of a few of things that will motivate a gun dealer to inflate the price of all transfers or maybe limit the inflated prices to the transfer of certain guns. One reason is the time it takes to complete the transfer, namely it’s going to tie up an employee. Another reason, it’s another avenue to make money and it will be mandatory for a non FFL holder to go through a dealer to transfer a gun. In other words good old fashion greed. If they do inflate the transfer fee for politically incorrect guns they could just say it’s for insurance reasons, liability etc. I believe that gun dealers are going to turn this into a cash cow without some type of price control in place.

The OP initial post was concerning the cost of transfers in the event that a universal background check was signed into law. Again, I just provided a possible scenario on how it could affect non FFL holders intending to sell a gun.

Just to make a final comment on greed and the gun industry, I been around since the start of the Reagan era machine gun freeze, the bush importation ban, the Clinton gun ban, the Obama election gun buying spree and most recently the Sandy Hook gun and ammo buying panic. I have seen the inflated prices that these events caused. I’ve also seen gun shops install a 3 percent credit card fee during these panic buying events. I don’t think they added that fee to serve their customers better.

To summarize, it is naïve to think that FFL holders are not going to inflate the cost of a transfer if it becomes mandatory to transfer all firearms through a dealer. Some may have a legitimate reason for a price hike, for others it could be greed, or maybe it will be just because they can and there is nothing anyone could do about it.

(Insert sound of sigh here.)

OK, so you really don't seem to like gun dealers. Or capitalism. Or freedom.

For starters, if any business charges you 3% for using a credit card, it's because his cc processor charges him 3% when you pay with a card. In other words, you pay $500 for a widget, the seller never sees $15 of that.

I'll pause here, and ask you a question whose answer will perhaps lead you to clarity on your other points: What keeps all those greedy FFL's from charging you $5,000 for a $500 gun, when there's no law that says they can't?

[GeneCC]

I could design a system that would encourage people doing background checks through a quick and simple online database, without registering a single gun, and it would work just as well at stopping violent crime as the Big Brother universal registration scheme proposed by wannabe fascists. Punch in the buyer's DL # and name, get a yes or no answer. False negatives would be appealable without even acknowledging the gun purchase attempt, just file a challenge form, because the system wouldn't require a gun purchase to get an answer. You put in your own info, and if it erroneously says "no", you can then challenge it.

Only if you use biometric ID. Probably have to be DNA based. Some diseases change retina blood vessel patterns. Iris patterns change in some people. Even finger prints can be damaged.

Social Security number? Those can be stolen.

I am not sure that Americans want their DNA markers stored in a government data base.

[GunLawyer001]

Only if you use biometric ID. Probably have to be DNA based. Some diseases change retina blood vessel patterns. Iris patterns change in some people. Even finger prints can be damaged.

Social Security number? Those can be stolen.

I am not sure that Americans want their DNA markers stored in a government data base.

Because no system is perfect, I'd stop long before asking anybody to surrender their SSN to some guy selling a shotgun, and biometric sampling is a little unrealistic.

When fighting terrorism, you want to stop 100% of them. When keeping guns out of the hands of guys who had a couple DUIs 10 years ago, the point is less stringent. Stopping half, or 3/4ths, of private sales to prohibited persons would be a "success", considering that cops don't solve half of all homicides in a lot of big cities.

It's like having a basement that floods every time it rains, and you get 3 feet of water. Would any acceptable solution have to keep it bone dry? Nope, you'd be doing well if you stopped 35 inches of the usual 36 inches of water.

The perfect is the enemy of the good-enough. Private background checks WITH NO REGISTRATION would be a small speed bump for most people, but would actually interfere with bad guys buying long guns in PA. I've heard of more than one prohibited person decline to pursue getting his rights back, and state an intention to "just buy privately".

[NShortino]

I had an idea for an alternative background check system like gunlawyer brought up, but I think it should be the buyer who handles the check. So if you wanted to buy a gun, you log on to the background check website and put in all your personal info, and if you're clear, it generates an approval number or some sort of code. This could be done before you even walk into the gun store or meet up with a private seller. Seller then enters your code, which brings up your basic info and approval. A quick show of ID matches you to the info it brings up, or there could be a way to put a picture onto your account with the background check site. Make the background check good for 24 hours or something, so if you're buying multiple guns, you're approval code would work for multiple purchases. And since you could do it in advance, it would make the process super fast for dealers, which should cut down on the costs.

The biggest concern with a system like that would be someone getting an approval and letting someone else use the code, but its something that could be sorted out with some other security feature. And that already happens now with stray purchases anyway. If universal background checks are going to a sticking point for the anti's, our side should suggest something like this as the "compromise", that would make the checks really easy, fast, and have nothing that ties a serial number to it (or anything noting its a gun check rather than for something else). If they reject the idea for not including the gun info, they'd be admitting that this is really about registration.

Granted, where I live we already have to do a background check for any gun sales, so the federal proposals wouldn't change anything much for me. I get why others would want to stand ground and not compromise on background checks any further, but I think there is a way to create a system that would be a benefit for the majority of gun owners, without completely selling out the buyers who wouldn't currently need a background check.

[GeneCC]

Because no system is perfect, I'd stop long before asking anybody to surrender their SSN to some guy selling a shotgun, and biometric sampling is a little unrealistic.

Depends.... as automated sampling systems get smaller and cheaper....

Iris or retina print checks, fingerprint scans, and so on. Probably as hard taking a photograph.

The perfect is the enemy of the good-enough. Private background checks WITH NO REGISTRATION would be a small speed bump for most people, but would actually interfere with bad guys buying long guns in PA. I've heard of more than one prohibited person decline to pursue getting his rights back, and state an intention to "just buy privately".

....except that how do you enforce compliance without a registry? Those of us who already buy solely through Dealers already have their purchases in the System.

So I sell a prohibited person a firearm. Cash 'n carry. The firearm vanishes forever. How does the State know that I broke the law?

A loved one dies. I get to take it home with me. How does the State know that it transferred to me?


Basically a "Universal Background Check" without registry would rely upon an honor system or hoping to catch the rare dingaling who sells for cash. How long would the Gun Control lobby let that go on, before demanding that the "system" expand into a registry?

I'd like to hear how we enforce the "no registry" background check without a registry. Gun and Owner in a data base.

[GunLawyer001]

. . .

I'd like to hear how we enforce the "no registry" background check without a registry. Gun and Owner in a data base.

Well then, this is your lucky day. Go read post #5.