Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #71
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    As a nonresident that has to shop for a County that issues LTCF maybe if PICS is gone there will be no excuse for the Sheriffs to say no issue to nonresidents. We issue to nonresidents here in FL. No reason some PA sheriffs should be able to not issue to nonresidents. But quite frankly national reciprocity would be the answer.
    I don't know your position on the issue, I'm about to mention, but in general, I find it tremendously ironic, when the very same people, that advocate for national reciprocity oppose said national reciprocity for gay marriage (and vice versa).

    On the side note, remember, government can take any right (read - privilege) as easy as they grant it. And that's aside from zillion new requirements, that they might easily force upon "participating" states. So imagine, feds will make it mandatory to have training, registration etc in order for states' license to be recognized. Next move - national reciprocity is over with the next administration, but I bet the new state licensing requirements will remain.
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  2. #72
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Moving from PICS to NICS is a bad idea. NRA and FOAC can go F themselves on this one. I told Kim Stolfer as much. (after I donated to his fund and expressed my pleasure for his recovery, just for the record) Great guy but this one is bullshit.

    If I didn't know better I would think there is some sort of quid pro quo here or this is just busy work to show a win. I went over this with him and he had no convincing argument and no convincing response to the potential downsides. And his people were running around misinformed about what this meant, saying things that are absolutely not true, such as PICS will let criminals through but NICS will catch criminals.

    FOAC is incredibly important and has done and continues to do great work. You can say the same about the NRA. But this one is bullshit. I just don't get it. Actually, I do get it, I just don't understand the motivation. Maybe somebody got pissy when PICS was down during a 2013 gun show or something.
    Last edited by ungawa; June 18th, 2017 at 03:04 AM.
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  3. #73
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    (Jefferson County)
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by LTCcarrier View Post
    As a nonresident that has to shop for a County that issues LTCF maybe if PICS is gone there will be no excuse for the Sheriffs to say no issue to nonresidents. We issue to nonresidents here in FL. No reason some PA sheriffs should be able to not issue to nonresidents. But quite frankly national reciprocity would be the answer.
    PICS has nothing to do with sheriffs refusing to issue to non-residents.

    Sheriffs who refuse to issue are doing so because of their own beliefs and are in violation of state law.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

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  4. #74
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    Moving from PICS to NICS is a bad idea. NRA and FOAC can go F themselves on this one. I told Kim Stolfer as much. (after I donated to his fund and expressed my pleasure for his recovery, just for the record) Great guy but this one is bullshit.

    If I didn't know better I would think there is some sort of quid pro quo here or this is just busy work to show a win. I went over this with him and he had no convincing argument and no convincing response to the potential downsides. And his people were running around misinformed about what this meant, saying things that are absolutely not true, such as PICS will let criminals through but NICS will catch criminals.

    FOAC is incredibly important and has done and continues to do great work. You can say the same about the NRA. But this one is bullshit. I just don't get it. Actually, I do get it, I just don't understand the motivation. Maybe somebody got pissy when PICS was down during a 2013 gun show or something.
    People get pissy about PICS when dealers looking to line their pockets tell customers that its PICS that is charging them the $50 fee to do a background check and an additional $20 for each subsequent firearm...

  5. #75
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Metz View Post
    I don't know your position on the issue, I'm about to mention, but in general, I find it tremendously ironic, when the very same people, that advocate for national reciprocity oppose said national reciprocity for gay marriage (and vice versa).

    On the side note, remember, government can take any right (read - privilege) as easy as they grant it. And that's aside from zillion new requirements, that they might easily force upon "participating" states. So imagine, feds will make it mandatory to have training, registration etc in order for states' license to be recognized. Next move - national reciprocity is over with the next administration, but I bet the new state licensing requirements will remain.
    You can have different requirements for different states and still have national reciprocity. Example, Pennsylvania tests differently on driving tests. In Pa, you have to be able to parallel park. Try to find a FL person who was licensed down here. They cannot do it. A drivers license is accepted in all states. No reason that a license to carry should not either. In fact, they state driving is a privilege. Our 2nd Amendment says the right to keep and bear arms is a right. A right is more than a privilege. There is no reason why we should not be allowed to carry in any state in the USA. In today's threat of terrorism we need that right immediately.

  6. #76
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    North West, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Mixed feelings about it. $120 million for a duplicative system versus fed noses further into the process.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by ItchyTick View Post
    Mixed feelings about it. $120 million for a duplicative system versus fed noses further into the process.
    It's not a duplicative system, it's an alternative system that shares some info with the Feds.

    As for the cost: First, it worked out (last I checked) to something like 50 cents per year per PA resident. That's close to zero, in the scheme of things. Second, there's no good reason why dealers and gun buyers should be paying for this, when they already pay the price of the hassle of background checks, and it's not for their benefit. You can't tax people to vote, you can't tax them to speak, but somehow we can tax the right to buy guns? No, it should be funded from general revenues, because any benefit is for the general public, NOT for the firearms community.

    This isn't like charging trucking companies money to use the highways, or charging broadcasters for an exclusive right to use specified radio frequencies. This is placing hurdles in front of an enumerated right, and then adding insult to that injury by charging the victims for the cost of the hurdles.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
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  8. #78
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    I am a life member of the FOAC. I am proud of that for the work that is done. In my eyes, they are wrong about the move to NICS. I was not happy to be forced into extolling this virtue when visiting with elected officials on 2nd Amendment Day. I kept my mouth shut since I wasn't the one leading the group and there was much more worthwhile causes to get behind those days.

    I am a firm believer of keeping the federal government out of my business as much as possible. The NICS horror stories and real and true.
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  9. #79
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    It's not a duplicative system, it's an alternative system that shares some info with the Feds.

    As for the cost: First, it worked out (last I checked) to something like 50 cents per year per PA resident. That's close to zero, in the scheme of things. Second, there's no good reason why dealers and gun buyers should be paying for this, when they already pay the price of the hassle of background checks, and it's not for their benefit. You can't tax people to vote, you can't tax them to speak, but somehow we can tax the right to buy guns? No, it should be funded from general revenues, because any benefit is for the general public, NOT for the firearms community.

    This isn't like charging trucking companies money to use the highways, or charging broadcasters for an exclusive right to use specified radio frequencies. This is placing hurdles in front of an enumerated right, and then adding insult to that injury by charging the victims for the cost of the hurdles.
    It should be moved to the General Fund since the entirety of the population benefits from excluding prohibited persons from acquiring firearms from dealers(yes, we all know they can get them by other means, which happens with NICS too).

    Then either taxes adjusted or cuts made to pay for it.

    Background checks aren't going away, ever. That portion of the Brady Bill will never be repealed, especially with SCOTUS having ruled in favor of background checks.
    RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515

    Don't end up in my signature!

  10. #80
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    Sep 2017
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    Wilkes-barre, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: PA to Consider Replacing PICS with NICS

    I have a question I hope you can help me with. I didn't pass my background check in pa. Even tho I was never convicted of a felony, never been 302d, have never had a PFA. The only crime I ever been convicted of is a misdemeanor for retail theft for steeling 90$ worth of food from a grocery store when I was 18. I had a crappy public defender & got 2 years probation. This is my only crime & that was over 22 years ago, 20 years since I got off probation. I don't understand how that makes me ineligible to buy a firearm. Can any one give me some answers. Thank you

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