Two shot at HS graduation following CCW "accidental" discharge

[rckeystone]

Went to my nephew's graduation yesterday at Hofstra University on Long Island. One of the thoughts crossing my mind as I sat down was how I hated sitting in a "fishbowl" unarmed. Of course nothing happened and I realize the odds of something happening are/were nil, but just the same it reinforces why I hate going back to NY to visit family. Love family, hate NY.

Of course the topping on the cake was that Chuck "E Cheese" Schumer showed up at the end of the ceremony. Luckily his speech was only about a minute

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[SevenMilePete]

While it's likely that carrying a gun in his sock was a major factor, I have to point out that the universal cure for ND's while carrying a semi-auto pistol is an empty chamber. Yes, it might be a disadvantage in certain tactical High Noon fast-draw incidents, but it solves every one of the "holster" ND's and "bathroom stall" ND's and "getting in/out of the car" ND's and "putting the gun in the nightstand" ND's and "trying out a holster at the gun show" ND's and "the toddler grabbed the gun off the table and pulled the trigger" ND's.

Nobody thinks this will happen to them, everyone is an expert with a top-quality holster and years of practice and training. I get it. But 100% of these events happen with a round in the chamber, 0% happen with an empty chamber.

You can't give zero weight to this consequence of carrying +1. There are reasons for both carrying with a round in the chamber, and for carrying without. Only a fool would ignore the counter-arguments to either side.

Carry without one in the chamber? That's like carrying it unloaded. Go to Youtube and search self defense reaction times. You can't even rack a slide at 21 ft. against a knife, much less a pistol. Maybe not carry in your frigging sock? And I thought carrying was illegal on school grounds anyway. I have seen a guy charged for carrying on school grounds at 10PM, when nothing was going on at school. Idiots like this just give ammo to the antis. Ridiculous!

[Cyclops]

This kind of incident always works against us who are handle our guns properly and safely. I am sure that many in the public see this incident as an example why guns should be banned. Fact is the gun owner must be dimwit. Not using a holster is to me a proof of idiocy.

I read GnLawyer001's post about having the chamber empty. There have to be at least half dozen cases reported on this site in the past year in which doing so would have stopped a ND.

I sold my Ruger LC9s Pro and went to the LC9s because the absence of a thumb safety on the Pro model just made me nervous. I never want to hurt anyone including myself by a ND. When doing so I recalled my days in the Corps shooting the M1911. It had the half cock safety, the handgrip safety, and the thump safety, but we who used that gun could get a shot off very quickly.

I carry 7+1 with the thumb safety always engaged. I have learned to disengage it in a split second. I practice it. I also selected OWB and IWB holsters that cover the trigger properly and that do not allow the safety to be accidentally disengaged on drawing. Safety always has to come first and especially when you carry a gun in public.

[SevenMilePete]

Can't rep. Would rep.

Disclaimer: I carry +1. But I can't deny that there are reasonable arguments for not doing that, and this is a prime example.

I'd say there are reasonable arguments for not doing it in your sock. What a bonehead. There are ways to carry a semiauto without the possibility of a discharge. I did this for three months when I first got a TCP. Just make or buy a trigger block. Very simple. Popping the block out is as fast as withdrawing the pistol. I checked the block every time I took the pistol out of my holster at night. It was always solid behind the trigger, making me confident that I hadn't messed with the trigger. The main problem here is that he had a gun on school property.

[TheTailhound]

0% happen with an empty chamber.

This.

Dry firing drills that incorporate racking and shooting (israeli style) is effective (atleast at the shooting range, in a controlled environment). I experienced this first hand at a shooting class i went to recently.

While you look at your shot timer and shake your head at how this is 2 hundredths of a second slower than your normal draw, for me, it is worth the extra time it takes for me to bring the weapon up, rack, point and press the trigger before i permanently end someone's life.

The only drawback is if the attacker closes the distance, i am SOL and will have to resort to other shenanigans.

[jthrelf]

I'll continue to carry chambered. But will never carry in a sock... promise that

[Adam-12]

Carry without one in the chamber? That's like carrying it unloaded...

I was hoping that this wouldn't turn into a slug-fest about Israeli draw. Obviously racking the slide slows down the presentation, although you can do it pretty damn fast with practice. And obviously you can come up with hypothetical scenarios where that time means the difference between life and death. At the same time, it is certainly true that a negligent discharge is impossible with an empty chamber. The number of times you handle a weapon administratively is enormous compared to the number of times you will draw it under circumstances that the additional 0.5 seconds will mean life or death. More cops shoot themselves in the ass holstering their guns, than are shot in the line of duty.

All GL said was that there are two sides to that coin. Can't deny that much.

[QuackXP]

Its brain dead idiotic mothefucking cockscukers like this that are going to get our rights taken away. If your going to take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm, do it with at least a bare minimum of safety in mind. And that is not carrying a chambered firearm in your sock.

Hopefully the fact that said said brain dead idiotic mothefucking cockscuker shot himself will be enough negative reinforcement to buy a holster next time.

$20 holster and this never would have happened.

[TooBigToFit]

While we're arguing over carrying with a loaded chamber vs. empty...

No one is going to defend DA/SA? Long pull and heavy weight provide a decent buffer against oopsies, can be cocked faster, or at least as fast as, racking a slide for the DA haters, and is always ready.

[TheTailhound]

While we're arguing over carrying with a loaded chamber vs. empty...

No one is going to defend DA/SA? Long pull and heavy weight provide a decent buffer against oopsies, can be cocked faster, or at least as fast as, racking a slide for the DA haters, and is always ready.

I should have amended my post. When i carry the Glock 19, it is an empty chamber carry. When I carry my Sig 226, i carry with one in the chamber, decocked. I prefer my Sig over my Glock.