Monroe County & the Sheriff mandated that I needed 2 personal references

[Mauser2447]

Hello ladies & gents, just registered w/ the forum so this is first post here.

I spent the last 3 days reading the entire "Where you CAN and CANNOT carry" sticky thread; overall, great info & wonderful way to spend some downtime when bored at work. Thanks to all who put it together & contributed to it.

I recently received my LTCF through Monroe County & the Sheriff mandated that I needed 2 personal references who also were residents of Monroe County. I know the issue of references was brought up a while ago, but could I have conceivably listed references who aren't Monroe County residents and my background check still be conducted? Long story short, does the state law for conducting background checks for LTCF approval overrule any rules & regulations that the individual county sheriff may try to enforce?

Thoughts?

[ewrski]

I live in Allegheny and they also ask for two references on the form. That being said, I showed up with the form, they gave me my LTCF. No one was called this time nor the last time.

That does not answer your question but it tells you how silly the references are.

[BallisticSheepDog76]

Either find two references from monroe county or hire a lawyer. Monroe county has historically had several additional requirements on the LCTF application that most other counties do not have. I actually got my permit from Monroe county (but now reside in Dauphin county). I have been told that the extra requirements are due to the fact that there are many New Yorkers who reside in Monroe county part-time and thus are not considered "full-time" residents of the county and are thereby not applicable for an LTCF. The "in county" references are supposed to keep these part-timers from obtaining carry permits. I personally feel this extra reference requirement (or any reference requirement) is unconstitutional. Suing the department could (and thats could - not will) change this requirement and significantly help others in the future who are dealing with the same issue as you.

[Steve in PA]

There is no requirement that the references must be from Monroe County or even PA. What the sheriff is doing is illegal. You could submit your application, but they will either refuse it on the spot or refuse to issue you the license after reviewing your application. If I recall, the sheriff must submit a letter stating why you are being refused the license. Someone else should be able to tell you what your options are when refused. I think you can file an appeal and the sheriff will have to explain his reasoning for the refusal to a judge.

[Ol' Fart]

I applied for my permit in Wyoming County and the two references I had were from California. I was not a problem, and neither of those two references were contacted. It must be county specific.

[Mauser2447]

It must be county specific.

Yes, it seems that way. Monroe County Sheriff specifies that 2 personal references who reside in Monroe County be listed on the application, along with a copy of my local income tax (presumably to verify that I am a full-time resident), and a copy of my military discharge paperwork.

Postcards were sent out to both of my references who needed to fill them out and return them in the mail. I felt a bit uneasy about this since they weren't in sealed envelopes or anything.

I had to submit the application in person at the Sheriff's office in the courthouse & pay the $6 fee, get my photo taken, etc. Then about 35 days later, I received a sliver of paper in the mail stating my LCTF was ready for pickup. Had to go back to the courthouse & pay $14 to be handed my LCTF.

Despite the process being outlined in state law, it seems each & every county has a bit of a different process. I understand the purpose behind the background check and whatnot, but it seems like Monroe Country is one of the more difficult counties to get an LCTF... perhaps the rules are they way they are to deter people from attempting to get a LCTF or the sheriff just doesn't want to be bothered, etc. All the extra hoops to jump through... Its a shame.

I'd love to make some waves & challenge the process, but I don't have the time or finances to officially do anything about it.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Either find two references from monroe county or hire a lawyer. Monroe county has historically had several additional requirements on the LCTF application that most other counties do not have. I actually got my permit from Monroe county (but now reside in Dauphin county). I have been told that the extra requirements are due to the fact that there are many New Yorkers who reside in Monroe county part-time and thus are not considered "full-time" residents of the county and are thereby not applicable for an LTCF. The "in county" references are supposed to keep these part-timers from obtaining carry permits. I personally feel this extra reference requirement (or any reference requirement) is unconstitutional. Suing the department could (and thats could - not will) change this requirement and significantly help others in the future who are dealing with the same issue as you.

That maybe a reason, but it is a bogus one as the State does not legally define who a resident of a citizen of the Commonwealth is. The law on the Commonwealth militia says everyone over 16.5 years who is a citizen or who intends to become a citizens is a member of the militia. Since military service (and citizenship) is generally more restrictive than residency, I would say this sets a low bar.

[SigForLife]

Either find two references from monroe county or hire a lawyer. Monroe county has historically had several additional requirements on the LCTF application that most other counties do not have. I actually got my permit from Monroe county (but now reside in Dauphin county). I have been told that the extra requirements are due to the fact that there are many New Yorkers who reside in Monroe county part-time and thus are not considered "full-time" residents of the county and are thereby not applicable for an LTCF. The "in county" references are supposed to keep these part-timers from obtaining carry permits. I personally feel this extra reference requirement (or any reference requirement) is unconstitutional. Suing the department could (and thats could - not will) change this requirement and significantly help others in the future who are dealing with the same issue as you.

Actually, there is already a lawsuit filed against the Sheriff which includes a challenge to his policies. There is a preliminary injunction pending, which will hopefully be decided in the next several weeks, which would preclude him from requiring references to be Monroe County residents. It also challenges, among other things, whether he can require references...

[Blacksmythe]

Thinking of moving to Monroe County, my fingers are crossed.

[bluetrane2028]

Thinking of moving to Monroe County, my fingers are crossed.

Making two Monroe county friends and providing income tax paperwork, while it's completely stupid and against our state's very well defined procedure for getting a LTCF... is miles better than anything NJ has to offer.

Anywhere in PA is better than NJ. Welcome in advance to PA, and don't vote for the same type of dbags that made Jersey what it is.