Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Eagleville, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    899
    Rep Power
    21164

    Default Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/mpotrs...=1133&q=440289

    Minimum 50 rounds ten percent must be at 25 feet or greater? I couldn't believe thats it.
    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom ... go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels nor arms. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Posts
    3,382
    Rep Power
    6406566

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    That is the minimum course of fire for qualification, not "training". While some depts use this as their entire "firearms qualification", if they have a decent firearms instructor there will be more.

    I run a three-day qualification. My "qualification" COF is not that basic and I try to change it from year to year. There is case law which clearly states, "qualification (alone) is NOT firearms training".

    I run a qualification COF for handgun, rifle and shotgun. I also run tactical/stress COF's for each. Drills which include moving, shooting from cover, weak hand, etc. I have guys from neighboring depts want to come and shoot when I qualify my dept, because they do not get the chance to do this with their own dept.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Eagleville, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
    Posts
    899
    Rep Power
    21164

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    I would really hope most places go beyond this but this as a minimum is very worrisome.
    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom ... go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels nor arms. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Posts
    3,382
    Rep Power
    6406566

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    Blame it on the chief or the powers that be who have a say about what the dept does. A neighboring dept just had two guys qualify as firearms instructors. One of the first things they mentioned was "holy cow........there is a lot of liability!"

    Um, no sh!t sherlock!. Their chief refused to let them do anything beyond shooting a qualification course for years. Even now, he is dragging his heels about letting them try and do things beyond qualification.

    I told them to write a letter, detailing what they want to do for their firearms training. Let the chief or council deny certain parts of it, and keep a copy. Then when the SHTF and their dept is investigated for an OIS, anything lacking in training will fall squarely on the head and shoulders of the chief and mayor.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Mountain Top, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Age
    48
    Posts
    11,946
    Rep Power
    453010

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    Good post, Steve.
    True that qual is not training.

    Sad that the reality is that many dept's do no real training. By going to ONE handgun tactics class you have gained more training than many dept's LEO's.
    _________________________________________

    danbus wrote: ...Like I said before, I open carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
    you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
    Remember Meleanie

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
    Posts
    2,131
    Rep Power
    1861

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmar View Post
    http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/mpotrs...=1133&q=440289

    Minimum 50 rounds ten percent must be at 25 feet or greater? I couldn't believe thats it.

    Actually it says 25 yards, not feet. I don't know how much actual training you have recieved but 25yds (75 feet) is a long shot with a handgun. The link shows what the minimum requirement is for QUALIFICATION, which is NOT the same as continued training. In boot camp we had to score a minimum very similar to the one you posted, before we were recieved any further training. No need to send someone to a tactical pistol course if they can't even shoot straight.

    Dave
    3%

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
    Age
    46
    Posts
    2,680
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    i'm betting that many here could qualify by tenfold.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    East of Eden, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    89
    Rep Power
    676

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    .
    Which individuals on this list should receive a letter requesting that the UFA should be a part of officer training... ?

    http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/mpotrs...ges/spacer.gif

    Perhaps include a copy of this.. http://paopencarry.org/PennsylvaniaGunRights.pdf


    .


    IN DOG WE TRUST
    OBEY THE YELLOW LAB

    .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Posts
    3,382
    Rep Power
    6406566

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    i'm betting that many here could qualify by tenfold.
    "Qualification" is nothing more than proving you can get a passing grade, nothing more. As I said, qualification is NOT training. Like boot camp, its proving you can do "X" number of pullups, situps, etc.

    I do agree that most depts do not do any type of training other than going to the range, putting 50-60 holes in a target and then say, see you next year. I used to "qualify" officers from a few neighboring depts who never received any firearms training. On the form I use, in big bold letters would be "QUALIFICATION ONLY! NO FIREARMS TRAINING RECEIVED". I did this for a few years, then decided, screw 'em. If they don't want to train their officers, I'm not going to perpetuate the problem. I think they finally sent an officer to F/I school, but I have not seen their program yet.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,954
    Rep Power
    8030556

    Default Re: Who averages more "training" than this just for fun?

    We qualified using 60 rounds I think. Used both hands together and individually, moved in all directions, and shot between 25 yards and 7 feet.

    The part being left out of these discussions is qual is timed. The time puts a little extra stress on you.

    Very few people could pass our Qual course of fire without formal training. It's very easy to lose points. Like losing 5 points for dropping a magazine during a mag save reload (tactical reload).

    In training we went through about 900 rounds each. We had a night shoot, shot from our backs, stomachs, sides, multiple threats, did one hand drills simulating an injury. Our instructors don't teach the qualification course solely in the training.

    We have an additional night shoot training exercise next month, I can't wait.
    Last edited by DaveM55; August 19th, 2008 at 12:56 PM.
    "Having a gun and thinking you are armed is like having a piano and thinking you are a musician" Col. Jeff Cooper (U.S.M.C. Ret.)
    Speed is fine, Accuracy is final


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. State wide "training day" needed to stop ongoing Keystone Cop gun grabs!
    By Mike in forum Training, Tactics & Competition
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 20th, 2008, 12:41 PM
  2. Glock "Grip Reductions" and "Reshaping"
    By dmcdonnell in forum General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 24th, 2008, 05:18 PM
  3. Replies: 10
    Last Post: February 18th, 2008, 02:01 PM
  4. Local Municipality "Codes" and "Ordinaces"
    By Penguini66 in forum General
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 22nd, 2008, 10:16 PM
  5. Defensive Edge Training at ACSHA with "Sully"
    By djturnz in forum Training, Tactics & Competition
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: November 21st, 2007, 01:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops