Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Ill try and keep a long story short.

    I was OC in Promised Land State park sitting on a park bench. This Bench is on our leased land by our Cabin. While sitting on the bench a lady stopped in the road and we began to talk. I walked over to her in the road. While talking to her, the park Ranger, specifically the Chief stopped. I said good bye to the Lady and she continued down the road.

    The Ranger and I then begin to talk. While talking he says (this is not word for word) You know that you cant OC in the park? I then asked what about on my leased land. He said no, not on the leased land. I then asked about the preemption law. He then made a reference to Federal Parks. This confused me even more because I know OC is legal in Gettysburg. I said ok Ill cover up! He then drove off.

    I talk to the rangers on a regular basis, almost every time I stop at my Cabin. Earlier in the day I spoke to two Rangers riding together. Neither said anything about the OC. This was also in front of my Cabin.

    So I did some reading and didn't want to NECRO a 2011 thread on PA State parks, that may or may not have current valid information.

    I am confused as to who is right me or the Chief. Is the DCNR not a Commonwealth agency? Can the DCNR regulate the Legal activity of OC?

    (m.3) Construction.--Nothing in this section shall be construed to:

    (1) Permit the hunting or harvesting of any wildlife with a firearm or ammunition not otherwise permitted by 34 Pa.C.S. (relating to game).

    (2) Authorize any Commonwealth agency to regulate the possession of firearms in any manner inconsistent with the provisions of this title.

    (n) Definition.--As used in this section, the term "licensee" means an individual who is licensed to carry a firearm under this section.

    (Apr. 17, 1986, P.L.82, No.28, eff. Jan. 1, 1987; Dec. 19, 1988, P.L.1275, No.158, eff. 180 days; June 13, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1024, No.17, eff. 120 days; Nov. 22, 1995, P.L.621, No.66, eff. imd.; Apr. 22, 1997, P.L.73, No.5, eff. 60 days; June 18, 1998, P.L.503, No.70, eff. imd.; Nov. 10, 2005, P.L.335, No.66; Oct. 17, 2008, P.L.1628, No.131, eff. 60 days; June 28, 2011, P.L.48, No.10, eff. 60 days)
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Not necroing the 2011 thread is a good idea, but a link might be helpful.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Long story short - Yes, state law now says that Commonwealth agencies cannot regulate firearms. However, 17 Pa. Code 11.215 has yet to be amended to reflect the change in state law. So, OCing in a state park is still illegal, but isn't, and a park ranger can still cite you, even though he can't.

    Second, don't confuse the rules of a federal park (Gettysburg) with a state park (Promised Land). Two different government entities, two different laws.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Long story short - Yes, state law now says that Commonwealth agencies cannot regulate firearms. However, 17 Pa. Code 11.215 has yet to be amended to reflect the change in state law. So, OCing in a state park is still illegal, but isn't, and a park ranger can still cite you, even though he can't.

    Second, don't confuse the rules of a federal park (Gettysburg) with a state park (Promised Land). Two different government entities, two different laws.
    i

    To be fair to the OP, he did not confuse Commonweath & Federal law. The ranger did.
    "Cives Arma Ferant"

    "I know I'm not James Bond, that's why I don't keep a loaded gun under the pillow, or bang Russian spies on a regular basis." - GunLawyer001

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    The state after passing the preemption law created several conflicts with other state laws. The State Parks law on OC is just one. There are also several other state agencies that still believe they have the legal right to regulate firearms on their grounds, buildings, campuses, or other state property. Unfortunately it will remain a gray area as to whether they can do it legally or not until someone gets arrested. Then the courts will decide whether preemption truly applies to the conflicting laws.

    I personally do not want to be a test case, and I do not trust the court to do the right thing. Their decision in McKown shows me how they would probably rule and it isn't in my favor...

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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Sorry I did not get back sooner, its been a long day. I don't want to be a test case either. The next time I return to Promised land Ill try and find the Chief and ask him to cite the violation.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Sorry I did not get back sooner, its been a long day. I don't want to be a test case either. The next time I return to Promised land Ill try and find the Chief and ask him to cite the violation.
    I would expect he will point to this. http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/cs/group...t/d_001192.pdf
    Page 14
    Section 11.215(4).

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Recollection here because I'm too lazy to pull up federal regs on an i-phone, but federal law at national parks is carry at will per state or local laws, except inside federal buildings, where firearms are prohibited For example, at Gettysburg or the liberty bell, you can OC per PA regs all day on the grass and sidewalks, but don't go inside to use their bathrooms!

    I wouldn't want to be a test case either. Leave it to the really good well funded lawyers to set the stage first, then let the chosen someone get arrested, and go through the process. Anything else would most likely result in a convoluted mess, with you out a pile of cash and possibly your 2A rights!
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Just carry concealed and end it that simple

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Promised Land State park OC confusion !

    Quote Originally Posted by cardonasharp View Post
    Just carry concealed and end it that simple

    Easier said than done when your doing outside work. Raking leaves, cutting wood and the list goes on. When your gun starts rubbing your side, it can get sore quick. Even when I did cover up my shirt would ride up.
    Last edited by Daycrawler; April 19th, 2016 at 09:25 PM.
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