Promised Land State park OC confusion !

[STBear]

There are a lot of big bears around PLSP. We have been camping there for 40+ years. Lots of changes in that time. I remember when the Park Rangers weren't even allowed to carry guns. We'll be heading there for our annual Father's Day camping trip. I CC so there won't be an issue. I can't afford to be a test case.

[R L Suehr]

Greetings,

Darn, seems the perfect situation that HB-2011/ Act 192 would have allowed standing for. Have to get that passed as a stand alone.

Regards, Jim
'

That it would. With the current make up of the PA supreme court, any case involving our 2A rights scares the shit out of me though.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

Yes indeed! A trip to PA SC is a perilous journey. A legislative fix is where we need to put the effort.

Regards, Jim

That it would. With the current make up of the PA supreme court, any case involving our 2A rights scares the shit out of me though.

[Bill67]

Not really pertaining to our carrying there, but yesterday I witnessed a Park Ranger playing parking lot attendant at the park. He was in full equipment mode of sidearm, cuffs, mag light and of course his vest. I guess the park police haven't heard of other types of LEOs wearing summer clothing.

[Daycrawler]

Not really pertaining to our carrying there, but yesterday I witnessed a Park Ranger playing parking lot attendant at the park. He was in full equipment mode of sidearm, cuffs, mag light and of course his vest. I guess the park police haven't heard of other types of LEOs wearing summer clothing.

Well Bill I guess you and I were in the park at the same time! Was he a little rotund and wearing suspenders? If so that was the Chief.

Like I said in my previous post the park was just to busy for a sit down with the Chief. The day before we were on the Beach when an Accident occurred at the entrance to the Dam breast.

[twency]

Greetings,

Darn, seems the perfect situation that HB-2011/ Act 192 would have allowed standing for. Have to get that passed as a stand alone.

Regards, Jim
'

That it would. With the current make up of the PA supreme court, any case involving our 2A rights scares the shit out of me though.

Act 192 strengthened preemption of municipalities. The (m.3) provision at issue here would not have been affected.

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

Thanks for the comment. I was under the impression that it ALSO extended STANDING; so that an OC issue within a State Park could be challenged without the individual actually having been arrested (preemptively, so to speak). Please correct me if my interpretation is wrong; in the interim, I'll look up the bill and re-read. Thanks again!

Regards, Jim

PS.............here is the section of Act 192 that as I understood it would allow for my statement above:

........(a.2) Relief.--A person adversely affected by an ordinance, a resolution, regulation, rule, practice or any other action promulgated or enforced by a county, municipality or township prohibited under subsection (a) or 53 Pa.C.S. § 2962(g) (relating to limitation on municipal powers) may seek declaratory or injunctive relief and actual damages in an appropriate court...............

Act 192 strengthened preemption of municipalities. The (m.3) provision at issue here would not have been affected.

[Big Kahuna 19547]

PS.............here is the section of Act 192 that as I understood it would allow for my statement above:

........(a.2) Relief.--A person adversely affected by an ordinance, a resolution, regulation, rule, practice or any other action promulgated or enforced by a county, municipality or township prohibited under subsection (a) or 53 Pa.C.S. § 2962(g) (relating to limitation on municipal powers) may seek declaratory or injunctive relief and actual damages in an appropriate court...............

Jim,
The State Parks are not a county, municipality, or township, they do not operate under or are they bound by Title 53 which regulates Municipalities... They are the Commonwealth and are governed by Title # 71 - State Government and Title # 17 which are their rules and regulations as published in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.....

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

Thanks much for the clarification, really appreciate it. Off to do more research now in Title 71 and 17. In your (anyone) opinion, do we already have a sufficient legal case to OC in State Parks or is some legislative remedy required?

Regards, Jim

Jim,
The State Parks are not a county, municipality, or township, they do not operate under or are they bound by Title 53 which regulates Municipalities... They are the Commonwealth and are governed by Title # 71 - State Government and Title # 17 which are their rules and regulations as published in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.....

[jim-analog]

Greetings,

OK, after searching for a needle in a HUGE pile of needles, I came across (thanks for the tip) PA Title 17-11.215.Weapons and Hunting. This seems to be the problem area in regard to OC in State Parks. Specifically, sections 4 and 5:

"(4) Possessing an uncased device, or uncasing a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, except as provided in paragraph (2) or (7), or except in the owner’s building on a leased campsite, in the owner’s residence, or in the owner’s vehicle or trailer.

(5) Failing to keep a device, including a firearm, archery equipment or slingshot, that is capable of discharging or propelling a projectile, in the owner’s building on a leased campsite, in the owner’s residence or in the owner’s vehicle or trailer. This prohibition does not apply to either of the following:"


The exceptions are for permitted hunting, trapping (excp 2) or target shooting (excpt 7) in areas so designated (or with written permission). So, I think we've circled around back around to the beginning of the discussion. I'd guess that without a slight change to Section 4, the Park Rangers do seem to have cause to not permit OC. That's my understanding anyway. So, is this worth the effort to attempt a legislative fix? Thanks to everyone who helped me out with the cites.

Regards, Jim