Delay in LTCF approval

[Lockheart]

Spoke with Joshua today. Super nice guy. Need to figure out how to put the retainer together.

[Aibit]

You got to fight to keep your rights.
I have a feeling you will be ok, specially with Joshua as your attorney.
Fight and don't give up.

[GunLawyer001]

I understand it gives him wide discretion. To the point of "heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend, who heard it from another youve been messing around". My point is that PA is a shall issue state, and I am questioning the legality of the character clause.

Please resist the temptation to challenge that in the courts. Yes, it will make headlines and gain free publicity for those involved. No, it will not prevail in the current appellate courts. Look at what we lost in the Keyes decision as an example. And Hobson McKown's case.

It's also untrue that contacting references is a violation of the UFA's confidentiality provisions. Those limit disclosure for purposes other than compliance with the UFA, which requires an investigation, meaning that contacting the references is in furtherance of the investigation required by the UFA. The Philly settlement got them to agree to not do that extra work any more, but the legal team that got that settlement is not going to work together again, ever.

Disorderly conduct. Non domestic violence. 2012. According to Prince Law, that is not enough to deny based on character and reputation, especially since it wasnt specifically quoted in my denial.

I hope that you misunderstood what you were told, because that's not true. Courts give sheriffs a lot of discretion in applying the character/reputation clause, and allow even non-convictions to be the basis of a denial. For that matter, federal and state laws allow non-convictions to prohibit gun ownership, such as alcoholism, mental health issues, and evidence of recent unlawful drug use without a conviction. A disorderly conduct conviction is a potential prohibitor for an LTCF, depending on the underlying facts; otherwise, the prohibitors for an LTCF would be identical to those for buying a firearm. The solution lies elsewhere, not in challenging this so broadly.

[Lockheart]

Just an update for anyone who was interested...

I unfortunately could not get together the entire retainer in time. So I attempted to do the next best thing, and sent my appeal letter to the sheriff directly, per the instructions I received in my denial. I also contacted my district rep Tom Marino.

I received another letter from the sheriff stating that I had to petition the court for a hearing. Not sure why the denial letter didnt say that... just to appeal to his office.

I also reached out to the Wayne County DA in reference to the matter and they wanted nothing to do with any of it.

I got a phone call from Marinos office in reponse to my letter. They reached out to the Sheriff's office, and did not respond to any of my concerns in the letter. I again explained the issues, and they passed the buck to the AG. Suppose I will write to them too.

This is not a completely dead issue, and I do have something on the back burner... we will see if it pans out.

[GunLawyer001]

Denied as "a person whose character/reputation indicates danger to public safety".

No specific reason. No appeal paper work. The letter states if I want to appeal I need to notifty the Sheriff's office within 30 days.

Just an update for anyone who was interested...

I unfortunately could not get together the entire retainer in time. So I attempted to do the next best thing, and sent my appeal letter to the sheriff directly, per the instructions I received in my denial. I also contacted my district rep Tom Marino.

I received another letter from the sheriff stating that I had to petition the court for a hearing. Not sure why the denial letter didnt say that... just to appeal to his office.

I also reached out to the Wayne County DA in reference to the matter and they wanted nothing to do with any of it.

I got a phone call from Marinos office in reponse to my letter. They reached out to the Sheriff's office, and did not respond to any of my concerns in the letter. I again explained the issues, and they passed the buck to the AG. Suppose I will write to them too.

This is not a completely dead issue, and I do have something on the back burner... we will see if it pans out.

If you were denied before April 7th, and you don't have an appeal filed in Common Pleas already, then this is a dead issue for this year. You had 30 days to appeal in Common Pleas. Now it's final for 12 months. Someone should have explained that to you.

[Lockheart]

I appealed per the instructions I got from the Sheriff that made no mention of a court hearing (playing ignorance here, but following the guidelines that the sheriff provided).

Actually I was advised that the 1 year thing was if an appeal was denied, not the initial application. And that advice came at a 100 dollar consult fee.

[GunLawyer001]

I appealed per the instructions I got from the Sheriff that made no mention of a court hearing (playing ignorance here, but following the guidelines that the sheriff provided).

Actually I was advised that the 1 year thing was if an appeal was denied, not the initial application. And that advice came at a 100 dollar consult fee.

I'll leave that between you and whomever you paid, but the Sheriff's denial became final when the time to appeal ran out. Some counties are casual about such things, but that's the way the law works, if they stick to it.

[Lockheart]

Then let me pose this hypotherical. My lease is up. If I moved to another county, and reapplied, they would have no idea that I was denied here. It's not like a denial goes onto your record. Sure, it may be viewed as a "gray area"... but people move all the time, and it can be significantly cheaper to rent elsewhere.

[Bang]

Sounds good to me, as long as the application you fill out at the next county sheriff's facility doesn't ask a question that would put you in the position of being dishonest.