State Game Lands Firing Range question

[theSaj]

"Am I right in assuming that everyone is supposed to only shoot one magazine w/the max. limit, call CLEAR, head down to the targets, check thinks out, come back and start all over again instead of shooting off a whole box (it seems)??? (correct me if I'm wrong please)"

Yes, you are wrong. Nothing whatsoever specifies that you need to clear, and all walk down to the targets. Just because the rules specifies 3 rnds for rifles, and 6 rnds for pistols doesn't specify everyone has to clear everytime.

That said, while I think the 3/6 rnd is lame, I still adhere to it. That said I know that many don't adhere to it.

But from my experience, all lanes will shoot several magazines and call clear when people feel that need to go down and check their targets.



"a goth (?) looking group"
Can we not be so prejudice at anyone who wears clothes different from you. It's sad how misrepresented the goth community is. Guess I should judge any Pennsylvanian with a missing tooth for the stereotype. Judge by the actions. If their actions were inappropriate....judge them on it. But not by their clothes.



"Also, what about the woman who was there picking up brass between people going down lane? I can see going to pick up the brass after someone left, but what do you do if someone shows up and starts collecting brass w/out asking (don't know if she did or not) and you reload yourself and you what to collect your own brass???"

Um, excuse me....what the !@#$% is your problem. I hope you dislike the range enough that you NEVER go back. Because frankly, while some of your grips are valid. You're really just going on a rant on every little thing. Technically, you're supposed to bend over and pick up all your brass. Every single last one.

I am quite thankful for the lady who collects the brass. It means I don't have too. And in fact, I try to keep all my revolver brass in a box to hand to her. I'm not reloading yet. So I have no problem giving the few pennies for recycled brass to someone who's doing the work to pick it up.

Frankly, this rang out to me like someone complaining that a homeless guy is picking up aluminum cans for recycling.

The woman in question always asked me if she could pick up the brass. Or she'd wait till people left.

"Commendable yes, but you guys do realize this woman while keeping the range clean is making money off of you guys!"

Yes, and you realize everyone you pay to mow your lawn, shovel your snow, fix your car, etc. Is making money off of you?

Nothing wrong with that if they are doing you a service. (ie: cleaning up your mess and keeping you from getting a fine).

AND IF IT'S THAT BIG OF A DEAL - JUST PICK UP YOUR OWN BRASS AND TAKE IT HOME. Oh, but don't pick up any brass you didn't fire. Cause if we're going to be petty...I left my brass for her NOT YOU!!!!

I hope NONE of you guys griping never go to the range. As frankly, she's doing us a big favor. She's cleaning up the mess for all the people who don't. This helps keep the range decent, and gives less excuse to have the place shut down. Some of you guys are making me think you're just a bunch of brassholes.

Besides if you guys don't go, it just makes it less busy for the rest of us.

*****

Sorry, this post just annoyed the crap out of me. Because I have gone to this range numerous times. Yes, I've encountered some idiots (gang banger types trying to shoot their pistol sideways). And yes, there are annoyances like the guy with the rifle at the pistol ranges. But overall, most people have been nice. Sure, many are less informed than veterans, but many are trying to learn. I've also met numerous very friendly shooters whom we've chatted, tried each other's pistols, etc.

My biggest complaint is that there are only two ranges at the 25ft range and are highly sought after. And no one EVER wants to use the 50 yard range.

[ErSwnn]

I'd be in to volunteer my time with my skid steer, and I would also volunteer the labor on the stands at knockamixon just to get the damn range open! It's by far the closest open range around me.

Be still my beating heart! YES! If that could open the cloest range to me I'm am definately up for getting it done. This could be a great way to waylay my perceived notion that the ranges are being closed for other than lead abatement and get the place usable again. Anyone else think this idea can fly? An organized weekend of PAFAO members would get a range opened and allow a lot of us to get to know one another. itstock, points for you!

[chuckL]

I believe 157 range will reopen in 2009.

believe it or not the weather does have alot to do with the cleanup.

[wis bang]

I'd be in to volunteer my time with my skid steer, and I would also volunteer the labor on the stands at knockamixon just to get the damn range open! It's by far the closest open range around me.

Nice sentiment but unless you have the OSHA 1910.120 [40 hours of training] plus specific lead abatement training as well as the proper Personal Protective Equipment; not to mention de-con arrangements for the skid steer all you would be doing is opening up a way for the FEDS to close that range permanently...maybe someday they would plant flowers in the bucket and leave the skid steer sit there as a monument to a 'good try' that failed.

The cleanup workers also have health monitoring; they do an annual physical after a 24 hour urine collection [I used to watch my dispatcher hand out the jug w/ the standard joke of a $100.00 prise for anyomne filling it. We used to give them a guide sheet telling them to cut down on shelfish [arsenic] and a few other tips to avoid failing without actually being physically contaminated.

Unfortunately this wasn't as big a problem in the 50's & 60's; boat builders used to love white lead paint, long lasting and it killed enough stuff to prevent rot. Same things that make it such a mess to clean up.

[itstock]

Nice sentiment but unless you have the OSHA 1910.120 [40 hours of training] plus specific lead abatement training as well as the proper Personal Protective Equipment; not to mention de-con arrangements for the skid steer all you would be doing is opening up a way for the FEDS to close that range permanently...maybe someday they would plant flowers in the bucket and leave the skid steer sit there as a monument to a 'good try' that failed.

The cleanup workers also have health monitoring; they do an annual physical after a 24 hour urine collection [I used to watch my dispatcher hand out the jug w/ the standard joke of a $100.00 prise for anyomne filling it. We used to give them a guide sheet telling them to cut down on shelfish [arsenic] and a few other tips to avoid failing without actually being physically contaminated.

Unfortunately this wasn't as big a problem in the 50's & 60's; boat builders used to love white lead paint, long lasting and it killed enough stuff to prevent rot. Same things that make it such a mess to clean up.

The lead removal should be done with by now at knockamixon (it's been oh, I don't know, 3 or more years now!), I was talking about rebuilding the berms and the shooting stands. Anyway, I'm sure that they wouldn't allow it, but just throwing it out there. I REALLY want that place to reopen, at least just the clay shooting areas would be a kind enough gesture.

[LowFlyer]

"Am I right in assuming that everyone is supposed to only shoot one magazine w/the max. limit, call CLEAR, head down to the targets, check thinks out, come back and start all over again instead of shooting off a whole box (it seems)??? (correct me if I'm wrong please)"

Yes, you are wrong. Nothing whatsoever specifies that you need to clear, and all walk down to the targets. Just because the rules specifies 3 rnds for rifles, and 6 rnds for pistols doesn't specify everyone has to clear everytime.

Thanks for setting me straight. I presumed since the limit was set to those amounts that the idea was to keep from monopolizing the range by shooting more then that amount and then going down range to check or for new arrivals to setup their targets.



"a goth (?) looking group"
Can we not be so prejudice at anyone who wears clothes different from you. It's sad how misrepresented the goth community is. Guess I should judge any Pennsylvanian with a missing tooth for the stereotype. Judge by the actions. If their actions were inappropriate....judge them on it. But not by their clothes.

WERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM? That was a descriptive "word". There was no "judgement" or "stereotype" implied! It was meant to create a 'visual'. As was the use of "gansta" (which you didn't seem to jump on). Not ONCE did I use any prejudental words, meanings or adjectives to imply something that you grabbed out of thin air! If you dress that way, and I don't know if you do, then YOU have a problem of putting words in peoples' mouths (typing) by your past experiences.

"Also, what about the woman who was there picking up brass between people going down lane? I can see going to pick up the brass after someone left, but what do you do if someone shows up and starts collecting brass w/out asking (don't know if she did or not) and you reload yourself and you what to collect your own brass???"

Um, excuse me....what the !@#$% is your problem.

No problem. It was a legitimate question. I learned the answer to that question from those who answered it w/o jumping to conclusions as you seem to do. The simple answer was, "she asks first". I didn't see that happening while I was there and someone showed up during the time I was watching.

I hope you dislike the range enough that you NEVER go back. Because frankly, while some of your grips are valid. You're really just going on a rant on every little thing. Technically, you're supposed to bend over and pick up all your brass. Every single last one.

Here again you show your presumptions. There were NOT GRIPS or RANTS! These were questions I had never seen asked by someone who had never been to a SGL b/4. ....and yes, I know about cleaning up. according to the website and posted regulations, "keep shooting benches clean and dispose of all other litter", which of course means brass.

Frankly, this rang out to me like someone complaining that a homeless guy is picking up aluminum cans for recycling.

Again, WERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM?....oh yeah, your mind NOT mine.

Sorry, this post just annoyed the crap out of me. Because I have gone to this range numerous times. Yes, I've encountered some idiots (gang banger types trying to shoot their pistol sideways). And yes, there are annoyances like the guy with the rifle at the pistol ranges. But overall, most people have been nice. Sure, many are less informed than veterans, but many are trying to learn. I've also met numerous very friendly shooters whom we've chatted, tried each other's pistols, etc.

Huh, just like this and every other forum or other places on the web were people interact and get to type what they 'feel' which could be totally different if there would be a 'face to face' interaction.

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions in the vein that they were asked.



....and BTW, I will go back to the range and I WILL leave if jackasses like some do show up as I've seen others say they do.

[ErSwnn]

Nice sentiment but unless you have the OSHA 1910.120 [40 hours of training] plus specific lead abatement training as well as the proper Personal Protective Equipment; not to mention de-con arrangements for the skid steer all you would be doing is opening up a way for the FEDS to close that range permanently...maybe someday they would plant flowers in the bucket and leave the skid steer sit there as a monument to a 'good try' that failed.

The cleanup workers also have health monitoring; they do an annual physical after a 24 hour urine collection [I used to watch my dispatcher hand out the jug w/ the standard joke of a $100.00 prise for anyomne filling it. We used to give them a guide sheet telling them to cut down on shelfish [arsenic] and a few other tips to avoid failing without actually being physically contaminated.

Unfortunately this wasn't as big a problem in the 50's & 60's; boat builders used to love white lead paint, long lasting and it killed enough stuff to prevent rot. Same things that make it such a mess to clean up.

I knew there'd be a catch, and of course your correct. But the notion is a fine one and I still give rep to itstock for thinking of it first and looking for a solution to the problem instead of people like myself just whining about it.

[ErSwnn]

I believe 157 range will reopen in 2009.

believe it or not the weather does have alot to do with the cleanup.

I have no doubt that weather plays a large part in such a cleanup but it's been years now. Months I can understand, years just doesn't make sense.

[theSaj]

"WERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM?"

I believe it came from this line...


"BTW, there were gangsta WTBs (couldn't the target at ALL at the furthest distance), a goth (?) looking group, and ONE person who would shoot the most and then call "CLEAR" even though there were others not done yet"

Where you rang out a number of criticisms in relation to various individuals. However, your only criticism of the goth group was that they were goth. Which really came across as rather prejudice. If you said there was a bunch of goths who were shooting all irregularly or unsafely, I'd have no problem. But when the ONLY criticism you lay on them is that they were goths. Than I take offense.

Now, if you were not trying to lay any criticism, and were just listing all who you saw. Then I apologize, and suggest that you separate the groups and individuals who were misbehaving or not being polite.



"what do you do if someone shows up and starts collecting brass w/out asking (don't know if she did or not) and you reload yourself and you what to collect your own brass???"

I will apologize to you on this, as a large part of my reaction was to all the later posts. That were just rude to someone who as I have witnessed has always been polite and helpful to the gun community. I thought one of those replies was yours but I may have been mistaken.

To answer the question. You politely tell the person "Excuse me sir/madam, but I plan to reload/recycle my brass and intend to keep it."


"Again, WERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM?....oh yeah, your mind NOT mine."
The brass rant was more directed to those who were all like "if she did this to me...I would..." when most of us who go to that range have had very positive experiences.

She might not ask everyone, as people like me have told her just feel free to pick up my brass. As I don't reload. So she pretty much knows me. But the first several times I went she always asked or waited until we were departing.


"which could be totally different if there would be a 'face to face' interaction."

Agreed, as I doubt most of the people ranting against the lady who picks up the brass would do so in her presence at the rance.

I will publicly apologize as I did over-react. And I will apologize when one is due. But I'll just state that your post and a number of the follow-up posts rubbed me the wrong way. As they hit upon both a culture I am involved with that is oft mispresented as well as someone I have interacted with and had positive experiences with.

So it probably touched on a few too many cords with a negative bent. And when people are talking about tossing their brass out just in spite (ie: not reloading, not recycling and not saving it for a friend who does). It does come across quite petty.

[DaveXDM40]

For the sub-topic of the lady picking up brass at the range. I feel sorry for someone who has to publicly lower themselves to scavenging on the ground for used cartridges to make a few extra bucks. She might be a very low income person who is just trying to make a few extra dollars to feed her and her kid? I doubt she is taking the money she makes from your empty shells and buying Gucci handbags and going on exotic vacations. Think of it as charity. At least she asks you if you will allow her to do it, i don't see what the fuss is about.