Lawful demand of LTCF (Split from Sticky)

[3%13fox]

Hey guys I'm new to this forum so sorry if this is of topic or not allowed but I'm just wondering. Since pa is not a duty to inform state what is the law regarding providing your ltcf when requested by a leo. Also if this is already a topic somewhere else could someone please sent me a link. Thanks everyone.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Hey guys I'm new to this forum so sorry if this is of topic or not allowed but I'm just wondering. Since pa is not a duty to inform state what is the law regarding providing your ltcf when requested by a leo. Also if this is already a topic somewhere else could someone please sent me a link. Thanks everyone.

You have to provide it upon lawful demand. There is No requirement to carry your LTCF on your person and the law does not outline a timeframe for this production. There is some disagreement about what constitutes a lawful demand. There is also a difference between a request and a demand.

[knight0334]

You have to provide it upon lawful demand. There is No requirement to carry your LTCF on your person and the law does not outline a timeframe for this production. There is some disagreement about what constitutes a lawful demand. There is also a difference between a request and a demand.

If the LEO witnesses you possess a "firearm" in a vehicle, or concealed, or and gun in public domain in Philadelphia, or any gun in public domain during a declared state of emergency - and then asks you for your LTCF, it is a lawful demand.

Those places/times are regulated by law as to requiring a LTCF - which would justify an LEO to ask for your LTCF.

If you are carrying in such manner, or places, or times and you fail to provide your LTCF upon demand, the LEO could arrest you on the M1/F3 charge if he didn't want to invest the time to have your LTCF looked up in the system. You would then have until your preliminary hearing to provide a LTCF that was valid at the time of arrest. ...from jail if you cannot afford bail.

[3%13fox]

So if I'm just walking down the street and a leo thinks he sees the outline of my ccw can he force me to show him my ltcf? Not in a major city in scranton.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

If the LEO witnesses you possess a "firearm" in a vehicle, or concealed, or and gun in public domain in Philadelphia, or any gun in public domain during a declared state of emergency - and then asks you for your LTCF, it is a lawful demand.

Those places/times are regulated by law as to requiring a LTCF - which would justify an LEO to ask for your LTCF.

If you are carrying in such manner, or places, or times and you fail to provide your LTCF upon demand, the LEO could arrest you on the M1/F3 charge if he didn't want to invest the time to have your LTCF looked up in the system. You would then have until your preliminary hearing to provide a LTCF that was valid at the time of arrest. ...from jail if you cannot afford bail.

Which is one point of view. Another point of view is that it is no different than driving without having your license on you, which they normally just run or issue a order to present your license within a few days.

I also know at least one civil rights attorney who has public said she would like to speak to anyone who has been detained well commiting no other crime. That was of course before the most recent elections. I'm not saying which way is right or wrong. I'm saying it is unclear.

[littlefitz]

So if I'm just walking down the street and a leo thinks he sees the outline of my ccw can he force me to show him my ltcf? Not in a major city in scranton.

Did that actually happen?

[gnbrotz]

You can always ask "Are you asking or demanding?". It won't settle the "lawful" question, but your recording will show (you ARE recording, right?) that you felt compelled to comply because the officer was acting under the color of law, as opposed to you 'voluntarily' providing it.

[Deleted]

So if I'm just walking down the street and a leo thinks he sees the outline of my ccw can he force me to show him my ltcf? Not in a major city in scranton.

That is correct. From our Superior Court in Comm V. Robinson.. "The implicit foundation of both Mears and Lagana is that possession of a concealed firearm by an individual in public is sufficient to create a reasonable suspicion that the individual may be dangerous, such that an officer can approach the individual and briefly detain him in order to investigate whether the person is properly licensed. "


https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...05223470263735

[Armor Snail]

There you go.

You can always just lose the concealment and carry worry free.

[abner13]

So if I'm just walking down the street and a leo thinks he sees the outline of my ccw can he force me to show him my ltcf? Not in a major city in scranton.

Scranton is not a 'major' city. It's no different than any other boro/town/city/etc when it comes to PA gun/carry laws.

The only city any different is Philly. Ya need a LTCF when open carrying in Philly.