18 Year old carry options?

**EVADeR** · March 9th, 2016, 11:56 PM

Hello everyone,

I just turned 18 and I am looking to exercise my rights as much as possible.

I have been gifted a handgun from my parents, and I know open carry is legal, but I'd like to be able to go as many places as possible. So the car is my only problem.

At the end of the day, my goal is to keep my handgun locked up in a legal manor, drive somewhere, put the weapon in a holster and go about my business and secure the weapon in the trunk when I'm done, then head home.

I have read the law as much as possible and tried to understand. And I've read many forums on this site. And I understand that I am restricted to transporting the firearm in the trunk of my car to going to and from the range, FFL, or home. However, I am looking for clarification to see if any of the exceptions listed under 6106.b apply to me.

After reading through PA 6106, it looks like there are two exceptions that might apply to me (Other than going to and from the range)

My parents both have a LTCF so I believe 6106 (b) 13, which says: (And if this does not apply to me, can someone explain what the purpose of exception 13 actually is?)

(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a
firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor
vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name
of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which
a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to
the spouse or parent owning the firearm.

And also, if I get a Maine permit, exception (11) might even let me open carry in a car, or at least be able to just store the pistol in the car. And from my understanding, this exception is different from the reciprocity, so the fact that I'm a Pennsylvania resident wouldn't matter.

(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle,
which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license
for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the
United States or any other state.

Any clarification on either of these would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

**twency** · March 10th, 2016, 01:13 AM

Sorry, despite the language of the statute appearing to say otherwise, the Maine license idea (subsection 13) is a non-starter. Thanks to the nonsensical opinion in Commonwealth v. McKown it is established precedent in PA that another state's permit may not be substituted for a PA permit by a PA resident for the purpose of carrying a firearm in PA.

In construing the Act to give effect to all of its provisions, we hold that a Pennsylvania resident who does not have a valid Pennsylvania license issued under the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act may not carry a firearm in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person in Pennsylvania under the authority of a permit issued by another state that has reciprocity with Pennsylvania.

**Curmudgeon** · March 10th, 2016, 02:31 AM

^ Additionally, because we are currently under a "State of Emergency", a LTCF is required for we peons to
carry a firearm, open or concealed. So don't try even walking around OC until that is lifted or expires. It was
enacted due to this year's Snowmageddon and automatically expires 90 days after enacted unless it is either
extended or withdrawn.

I don't recall when it went into effect. When did we get 3 feet of snow? Well, probably a couple days after that.

The bad news is - it looks like you have a 3 year wait.
The good news is - you have a 3 year wait, because this isn't New Jersey, or Maryland, and you'd likely never get it.

**45acp** · March 10th, 2016, 08:59 AM

This does make one question our legal system. How have we let the precedence of one case have the effect of law. We often hear that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but as in this case it is possible to know the letter of the law and follow it precisely, but without knowledge of all court rulings one is still in jeapordy. Doesn't make sense to me.

I am a simple person, but it seems to me this prohibition violates the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, article 1 section 23 which plainly states "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." But then again I'm not a lawyer or judge who we need to help us understand complicated legal questions.

**R L Suehr** · March 10th, 2016, 09:33 AM

As was stated above the McKowen ruling killed the Maine permit idea for those under 18. Once the aforementioned "state of emergency" is lifted you are pretty much stuck on foot.

Exception 13 that you listed was designed so if you were driving a vehicle owned by say a parent and didn't know they left their firearm in there, you would be able to use it as a defense. Same would go for a spouse. At least that's the way it has been used.

You would also have to watch out for gun free school zones. Without a license you don't have the exemption to travel through them even on foot and being otherwise legal.

Realize that even if you stay legal on foot oc, that doesn't mean that a leo will simply let you go even though you're legal. You could find yourself arrested, charged, and having to go through court proceedings to be found innocent. Not every leo will know that it's legal for you to oc at 18 and if they run the gun through the bullshit ros, it won't come up as being bought by you. That can open up a whole other can of worms including having your gun confiscated and then having to prove ownership.

I'm not agreeing with any of this mind you, but it is all something to consider.

**PAMedic=F|A=** · March 10th, 2016, 11:06 AM

just like open carry at 28, 38, & 108. What well screw you is not being able to Carry on any form of transportation. Not in a car, not near, not far. Not in a truck, you're out of luck. Not on a pedal bike, which you may not like. Not on a horse, because no LTCF of course. Not in a city of the first class, because you want to protect your ass. Not during a state of emergency, even if you think there's urgency. Within a thousand yards of a school, you'd be a fool.

**Statkowski** · March 10th, 2016, 11:23 AM

Patience, Grasshopper.

Even if totally legal, THE AUTHORITIES will use your all-of-eighteen years of age against you should anything go wrong, even if you're right.

**jthrelf** · March 10th, 2016, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by PAMedic=F|A=

just like open carry at 28, 38, & 108. What well screw you is not being able to Carry on any form of transportation. Not in a car, not near, not far. Not in a truck, you're out of luck. Not on a pedal bike, which you may not like. Not on a horse, because no LTCF of course. Not in a city of the first class, because you want to protect your ass. Not during a state of emergency, even if you think there's urgency. Within a thousand yards of a school, you'd be a fool.

This.

Lots of situations when you cannot legally carry. A few when you can....

If you're responsible, comfortable with safely handling a firearm and know the law backwards and forwards then I don't see a problem taking your dog on a walk while OC'ing, walking to a buddy's house, walking down the street to grab a gallon of milk etc. Be prepared for contact with law enforcement. Just don't do anything stupid that's going to jeopardize your LTCF in the future. Seriously, don't do anything stupid. Not a knock on you, but just that people's brains don't fully mature until ~25 years old (that's just science).

BTW, it is not legal to have a firearm unloaded and then load and holster up once you've arrived at your destination just to OC without a LTCF and then unloading again before getting in the car. It is only legal to transport in the car going directly to a range.

**QuackXP** · March 10th, 2016, 01:45 PM

In any of the above possibilities even if they are legal and I have my doubts about that, if you have a LEO encounter the chances of them knowing that someone under 21 carrying legally is even a remote possibility is very low. You would end up proving your case in front of a judge most likely at the expense of a lawyer.

**ungawa** · March 10th, 2016, 02:15 PM

You're screwed.

As discussed, McKown eliminated even vehicle transport for PA Citizens on a license from another state. Actually, the way it was worded, only licenses honored by PA. Could you drive around on a license not honored by PA? I wouldn't take that chance.

Regarding b(13), that is intended (in my opinion and the opinions of many) to protect you if your parent left a gun in the car. Not to let you drive around with a gun in your parents' car but not be allowed to drive around in your own car, which would make no sense. It should be legal by the letter of the law, but McKown said we can't carry on out of state licenses even though our law says we can. I wouldn't count on that one, either.

I am not a lawyer.