38 S&W "Victory/British Service Revolver"

[Rock1911]

Hello, new-ish to the forums (see also: classified ad stalker), and in need of some advice on a few of my firearms. In this post, I will stick to the S&W "Model 10" "Victory" British Service piece. I put some of that in quotes, as in the brief research into this topic I found extremely heated disagreements over what this is technically classified as.

I love collecting firearms and other items used in wars, due to the history of each item. This was actually picked up on a whim a few years back, and while I love it, I desire to know more about it if possible.

It is a Smith and Wesson, 5 inch barrel chambered in .38 S&W. It's s/n is in the 61xxxx range, which if I researched proper, puts it somewhere in the 1944 production range. The stocks appear to be the originals, they are smooth and have the S/n on the right stock. Each chamber has been stamped with what I assume is the British inspection marks verifying they have passed certs, but I am speculating. There is a proof mark over the mark left side of the trigger guard.

Under the stocks on both sides, there is a "V" mark, though in very different positions. Right side is at the base, center, below the stud or whatever that protrudes to align the stock in place. The left is on the backstrap part of the frame, towards the top, still under the stock. (Trying to be detailed in case pictures don't work, apologies)

I'm looking for history, seeing if it actually made it overseas and into circulation, who would use it (assuming mainly pilots or other crew served vehicles?) time of importation Stateside, value then and now, what all the marking mean, etc. Oh, forgot, it has a "V" in front of the lanyard swivel, opposite the serial number. This led me to think of it as a "Victory Model", but I have read that this could be incorrect. The debate I read seemed like a lot of personal opinions were assumed as fact, so I would love to clarify. Doesn't matter to me, its all history to me, and history is a passion. Thank you for your time and expertise!

(Additionally, how can I add photos from a droid phone? No luck so far, and no PC)

[Gunsnwater]

Get it lettered when Mr Jinks resumes lettering.

[indianjack]

I've found that Mark and his partner at oldguns.net is very knowledgeable and very helpful.

[pennlineman]

The V in front of the lanyard loop is a prefix for the serial number. So it should be read as V 61XXXX. The V prefix was adopted because the tool S&W used to stamp serial numbers only had 6 digits and they felt it was simpler to add a letter rather than making a new stamp for 7 digits. V was chosen for victory. According the standard Catalog of S&W our serial number places it in the 1942-45 range.

The victory model was made with 4, 5 and 6 inch barrels. Chambered in both .38 S&W for the British and .38 special for US use.

As has already been pointed out, the only way to know exactly where and when that revolver shipped to would be to request a factory letter from S&W.

[Dave_n]

Pennlineman is reasonably correct. The 38 S&W in 5" was the pistol issued to the UK and Empire troops as the UK loading of a 178 grain metal clad bullet came close to matching the old 38 Colt police round that the 380/200 grain UK cartridge was based on. Due to the "Hague convention", the 200 grain lead bullet was switched to a metal clad 178 grain head around the beginning of WWII in late 1939. The round was originally designed for the Enfield Pistol No 2 Mk 1 (which resembled the Webley MK VI in shape but not in size) and this pistol was issued to UK/Empire troops as well. Only the 5" S&W model was UK/Empire issue. In 38 special and 4", usually issued to security guards in the US and rear echelon troops in US service. 6" was relatively rare. After WWII, the 38/200 version became the Model 11 and was made postwar usually with an S prefix, often to special order to ex-Empire (now Commonwealth) countries.

If you want to load for your pistol, then look for a 0.360 diameter lead head between 180 and 200 grains. 38 S&W cases can be obtained from Starline and load to give ~600-650 fps. The 38 S&W round is of larger diameter than the 38 Special. You will find a fair number of nominally 38 S&W pistols in the USA that have had their cylinders bored out to take a 38 Special by removing the shoulder in each cylinder. Do not use these. I have one that was bored out and then relined for 38 Special. these often have silver soldered long Parker-Hale front sights and were cut down to 4". Those are quite safe to use with 38 Special, though you need to have the muzzle recrowned as it was cut vertically from 5" to 4". If you want to know more, as I have quite a reasonable collection of 38 S&W pistols, can PM me but I might be slow to answer as though nominally retired from Uncle Sam, I do a lot of traveling (at times for him!). Dave_n

[Bang]

I have read somewhere that S&W's production of Victory revolvers exceeded all other models.

I have one which originally came to me with the wrong grips on it. I found correct grips at a gun show and changed them out. Only thing is, the serial number written in pencil on an inside surface of one of the "correct" grips doesn't match my revolver's number, but, oh well...

[Delkal]

Is the V proofmark upside down and has a hash mark under it? Australian "Victory" revolvers in .38S&W did not have a V-prefix. They did have the Australian Arrow proofs that can easily be confused with the S&W V prefix.

I have one but I can't take a picture tonight.

[Rock1911]

Nope, the "V" is upright. Basically reads V (lanyard loop) 61xxxx. I'd take pictures of the other markings on the chamber and frame, but it wouldn't let me post pics on my phone. Not sure how.

Not sure what the value would be, the parkerization isn't the greatest, definitely shows wear. No rust. Original stocks.

Back to its designation. The discussion I read before about what these models were called was heated, and no clear points were made about its classification. Some called it a model 10, some said due to the "V" that it was a Victory model, but some discounted it being classified as one or both as it was a British Service Revolver, and this somehow negated S&W's designations, and it was to be classified as a British Service Revolver of some type.

I'll have to find what I was shooting out of it. Remington rounds I believe, bought them like 5 years back. Like $50 a box... needless to say I don't shoot it often haha.

I find pieces like this really interesting. I love older weapons that have history. Still need to look into some of my other firearms.

[Ecclectic Collector]

I have one of these that is NZ property marked. As for bore diameter I actually slugged my barrel and found it was .358 diameter. I use standard .38 bullets and never looked back. The .38 S&W is very easy to hand load. You can use 9x19mm dies with a No. 1 shellholder, or just buy standard .38 S&W dies. Ammo isn't THAT bad to buy either. I've found it in the $25-30 range. Its a great gun and the cartridge doesn't get the respect it deserves in a solid, well made gun like the Victory model.

[brian]

it's not a model 10....but it sorta is, kinda.
the numerical naming system s&w uses now, only showed up in the late 1950's. while this pistol is still in production today, as the model 10, albeit in 38 special, back then the official name was the ".38 military and police".
being yours is in .38 s&w and bears what is assumed as british proof marks, it would be known as a ".38/200 british service revolver". the 200 is for the bullet weight....as the load the british used for it.