Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    Hello, I've been searching the web for awhile and can't seen to find anything about my rights as a person who has committed a non-violent felony (access device fraud) and a criminal mischeif misdemeanor, and a falsifying police reports misdemeanor, when it comes to purchasing and carrying guns. Do I have the same rights as any other convicted felon, the same rights as any other person with no record, or some sort of middle area?

    From what I've been able to glean from the few helpful websites, I can definitely buy long guns and carry long guns (is this right?), but there was conflicting information about hand guns. I guess the best method to see if I can get a hand gun would just to go try and buy one, right?

    Any information you guys would have on the subject would be much appreciated, you seem like a very smart and well informed lot.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    A felony is a felony.

    I suggest you talk to a lawyer familar with gun laws, but I'm pretty sure you are not eligible to possess firearms (sidearms or long guns)...at least for a period of time.

    IF you try to purchase a handgun, do not lie on the forms! But the lawyer is probably the better option.
    Last edited by RoyJackson; August 9th, 2008 at 11:23 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    A felony is not a felony.

    18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6105

    Purdon's Pennsylvania Statutes and Consolidated Statutes Currentness
    Title 18 Pa.C.S.A. Crimes and Offenses (Refs & Annos)

    Part II. Definition of Specific Offenses

    Article G. Miscellaneous Offenses

    Chapter 61. Firearms and Other Dangerous Articles

    Subchapter A. Uniform Firearms Act (Refs & Annos)

    >>§ 6105. Persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms



    (a) Offense defined.--

    (1) A person who has been convicted of an offense enumerated in subsection (b), within or without this Commonwealth, regardless of the length of sentence or whose conduct meets the criteria in subsection (c) shall not possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture or obtain a license to possess, use, control, sell, transfer or manufacture a firearm in this Commonwealth.

    [...]

    (b) Enumerated offenses.--The following offenses shall apply to subsection (a):

    Section 908 (relating to prohibited offensive weapons).

    Section 911 (relating to corrupt organizations).

    Section 912 (relating to possession of weapon on school property).

    Section 2502 (relating to murder).

    Section 2503 (relating to voluntary manslaughter).

    Section 2504 (relating to involuntary manslaughter) if the offense is based on the reckless use of a firearm.

    Section 2702 (relating to aggravated assault).

    Section 2703 (relating to assault by prisoner).

    Section 2704 (relating to assault by life prisoner).

    Section 2709.1 (relating to stalking).

    Section 2716 (relating to weapons of mass destruction).

    Section 2901 (relating to kidnapping).

    Section 2902 (relating to unlawful restraint).

    Section 2910 (relating to luring a child into a motor vehicle).

    Section 3121 (relating to rape).

    Section 3123 (relating to involuntary deviate sexual intercourse).

    Section 3125 (relating to aggravated indecent assault).

    Section 3301 (relating to arson and related offenses).

    Section 3302 (relating to causing or risking catastrophe).

    Section 3502 (relating to burglary).

    Section 3503 (relating to criminal trespass) if the offense is graded a felony of the second degree or higher.

    Section 3701 (relating to robbery).

    Section 3702 (relating to robbery of motor vehicle).

    Section 3921 (relating to theft by unlawful taking or disposition) upon conviction of the second felony offense.

    Section 3923 (relating to theft by extortion) when the offense is accompanied by threats of violence.

    Section 3925 (relating to receiving stolen property) upon conviction of the second felony offense.

    Section 4912 (relating to impersonating a public servant) if the person is impersonating a law enforcement officer.

    Section 4952 (relating to intimidation of witnesses or victims).

    Section 4953 (relating to retaliation against witness or victim).

    Section 5121 (relating to escape).

    Section 5122 (relating to weapons or implements for escape).

    Section 5501(3) (relating to riot).

    Section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training).

    Section 5516 (relating to facsimile weapons of mass destruction).

    Section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor).

    Section 6301 (relating to corruption of minors).

    Section 6302 (relating to sale or lease of weapons and explosives).

    Any offense equivalent to any of the above-enumerated offenses under the prior laws of this Commonwealth or any offense equivalent to any of the above-enumerated offenses under the statutes of any other state or of the United States.
    And from 18 USC 922
    (g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
    (1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
    I'm a little worried now...because the 4473 form talks about being under information or indictment for a crime, and I think PA SP4-113 (for handguns) says something about 2 year stuff.

    Let me try to find that, too.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    12c. A person who has been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned the person for more than one year is not prohibited from purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if: (1) under the law where the conviction occurred, the person has been pardoned, the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had civil rights (the right to vote, sit on a jury, and hold public office) restored AND (2)the person is not prohibited by the law where the conviction occurred from receiving or possessing firearms.

    http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    Yeah, that stuff that pex found is what I was thinking of, and my felony is not on there. But I'm not sure about that 1 year imprisonment thing, I don't know what the maximum sentence could have been, how do I find that out? I know I didn't do any jail time, only 2 years probation. I wouldn't even know how to fill out that form that fingers found.

    Also, that form makes me wonder - Did I lose my right to vote, too??

    So I just call up a lawyer and ask? Couldn't I go to the courthouse and get some information about it?
    Last edited by Darkenfire; August 10th, 2008 at 06:43 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    What about federal laws? I believe that's what would cause you the most problems.

    As far as PA laws, the PA State AG might be a good source of info, and Tom Corbett is pretty pro-gun.

    I'd still suggest contacting a lawyer...few folks here have legal training.
    Last edited by RoyJackson; August 10th, 2008 at 09:32 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    Update: I decided to just go for it, try to purchase a handgun and get my LTCF and not lie on any of the forms and see what happens.

    I got a Colt Mark IV (1911) from cabela's, and got my LTCF from the York County Courthouse Sheriff's office.

    At the Sheriff's office, most people said they were given it right away within a half hour, but I was told after he called the state police that my application was going into "research" and he would call me in a few days when the results were in. So I was like "that's a denial." But he called me a few days later and said come get your permit.

    My felony was access device fraud for information's sake.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    Congrats on the new gun and LTCF. Glad a foolish mistake you made and paid for did not prevent you from getting them.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenfire View Post
    Update: I decided to just go for it, try to purchase a handgun and get my LTCF and not lie on any of the forms and see what happens.
    I got a Colt Mark IV (1911) from cabela's, and got my LTCF from the York County Courthouse Sheriff's office.
    At the Sheriff's office, most people said they were given it right away within a half hour, but I was told after he called the state police that my application was going into "research" and he would call me in a few days when the results were in. So I was like "that's a denial." But he called me a few days later and said come get your permit.
    My felony was access device fraud for information's sake.
    That's rather curious. I thought that I've read that (lawful or not) FFLs/sheriffs/whomever were directed not to execute a PICS check if the transferee marked yes in the wrong spot. I wonder if that was an oversight.

    A sheriff has 45 days from application to grant or deny a license. PICS can place you in research up to 15 days but not more, and is required to deny on the 15th day if they can't affirm you're not prohibited (apparently), and as a matter of law a failure to contact after 15 days is deemed a PICS check denial. An FFL or sheriff may generally only proceed by PA law with an approval number.

    If PICS didn't catch the convictions, there's an open question as to the max jail time provided for by the law of the state in which you were convicted, or perhaps some database never received your records. There is also a question whether you were ever convicted at all, I'd think. How do you know that you were convicted? Do you have supporting documentation?

    Whether or not you were allowed by both a application recipient and PICS to receive a firearm, I think some of the laws put the burden on the transferee to know he's not prohibited. So while it was good not to lie on your forms, you could still be haunted by someone who wants to dig for info and then deems that you were never entitled to firearm.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Question about Non-Violent Felony Gun Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenfire View Post
    My felony was access device fraud for information's sake.
    According to the PA statutes, access device fraud only reaches felony status if it was used to steal $500 or more. The only reference to access device fraud "for inrformation sake" according to Google is your post here.

    Are you sure you have a felony conviction?

    http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/c...1.006.000.html

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