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Thread: LTCF woes

  1. #11
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    Fombell, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Let's back up. How is it that you don't have TWO sane adults that will give a simple reference? That in itself is a huge red flag. You either have a really messed up existence with a bad crowd of tardiots around you, or you have some issues you aren't sharing. People-wise. Protip: don't hang out with people who are idiots. It desensitizes you.

    Anyway, now that the fun judge-y stuff is out of the way, whatever those other guys said.
    It has to start someplace... It has to start sometime...
    What better place than here? What better time than now! - RAtM

  2. #12
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    Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Python73 View Post
    Let's back up. How is it that you don't have TWO sane adults that will give a simple reference? That in itself is a huge red flag. You either have a really messed up existence with a bad crowd of tardiots around you, or you have some issues you aren't sharing. People-wise. Protip: don't hang out with people who are idiots. It desensitizes you.

    Anyway, now that the fun judge-y stuff is out of the way, whatever those other guys said.
    I'm getting the context that his sheriff is requiring IN COUNTY references, which is ridiculous.

    If you just moved into the county and therefore haven't made the kind of friends you want to put on such an application (or just prefer to be a loner, but a sane one that hasn't caused legal issues), then I guess you're just hosed on carry rights until you've been there a while or force yourself to be more social.

    Bullshit.

    For that matter, I myself don't have in county people that I'd want to put on it. My neighbors are antis, and the couple friends I have in this county are on the fence at best. I moved in for proximity to work and continue to hang out mostly with the same people as before I moved. If Montco had the same requirement, I'd be hosed too.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Lucky for me when I moved to Monroe County I had a friend from work that already lived here and the 1st day I met my neighbor he told me he would be a reference because of the BS requirement. Neighbor is a retired gun smith and all around kick ass old guy.

  4. #14
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    Jan 2013
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    Dover, Pennsylvania
    (York County)
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    If you're sick of the BS, let him deny you, then file an appeal. "Lack of response from references" is not a legal basis for denial.
    ^^^
    This. If you've gone 45 days since the application, head down and remind them of the state mandated 45 day rule. You might mention Philly just settled a lawsuit for violating said rule as well. Remind them nicely that references and phone bills are not required by state law either, and in the same sentance, before they even deny you, ask what the appeals process is, because violating state rules will never fly when an issue like this moves up the food chain.

    Have all your ducks in a row - I'm not going to find them with my cell phone, but on PAFOA you will find copies of the state law, the Philly lawsuit, and all other pertinent info you should have IN YOUR HANDS when you walk in the door to put up an intelligent argument.

    Finally, if its been 45 days and they refuse to make a decision without the references, look back at other LTCF posts about 'constructive denial'; I would take that route and fight the fight.
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  5. #15
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    Nov 2013
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    DWG, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    On the subject of references..

    I just moved here. I don't work in state, reference #1 got his paperwork in right away. Reference #2 screwed everything up, and a third reference I furnished never got his postcard. Reference #3 carries daily, reloads, etc. #1 and #3 I used to work with, and #2 was my most friendly neighbor. I'm polite as hell and have a decent job. No issues.

    The most recent plan was to wait for the denial letter since I'm apparently getting denied today, then probably mail back an appeal. I may try to print the relevant documents at work today and leave around 230 to get to the courthouse on time to speak in person.

    They have to be aware of the laws. I wonder if it will be "fine, have a nice day" or if they have rehearsed arguments.

    Edit: I printed out John Doe vs Philadelphia. Any suggestions on what else to bring? I cant find the State Police issued forms without references, if such a thing exists. The PA firearms code is... Long and says the sheriff may make an investigation, but doesn't outright mention anything about references.
    Last edited by 302w; January 8th, 2016 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Quote Originally Posted by bluetrane2028 View Post
    I'm getting the context that his sheriff is requiring IN COUNTY references, which is ridiculous.

    If you just moved into the county and therefore haven't made the kind of friends you want to put on such an application (or just prefer to be a loner, but a sane one that hasn't caused legal issues), then I guess you're just hosed on carry rights until you've been there a while or force yourself to be more social.

    Bullshit.

    For that matter, I myself don't have in county people that I'd want to put on it. My neighbors are antis, and the couple friends I have in this county are on the fence at best. I moved in for proximity to work and continue to hang out mostly with the same people as before I moved. If Montco had the same requirement, I'd be hosed too.
    Oh look up our fights with Sheriff Martin. He's a piece of work. I think there was someone on pa2a board that had a pro bono lawyer ready to hammer him on this.
    I did my part last November and if 800 more did we wouldn't have this shit.

    Tell you what 302 your convincing me. If I'm not working everyday sometime soon I'll pm you so we can meet IRL and you would have 1 other stand up guy as a friend in this wilderness.
    TriggerTime LLc 01/02 FFL CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun MB Counselor

  7. #17
    Join Date
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    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Any updates?
    TriggerTime LLc 01/02 FFL CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun MB Counselor

  8. #18
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    Nov 2013
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    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Couldn't skip out early on Friday, didn't get the chance to go.

    Friday night #2 reference called me, saying he got a receipt in the mail and/or "the bottom half of the card". I couldn't understand him because I was on a date in Applebee's. I've never heard of that so it sounds like BS.

    I should get my rejection letter no later than tomorrow if I was denied Friday.

  9. #19
    Join Date
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    412/724, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Python73 View Post
    Let's back up. How is it that you don't have TWO sane adults that will give a simple reference? That in itself is a huge red flag. You either have a really messed up existence with a bad crowd of tardiots around you, or you have some issues you aren't sharing. People-wise. Protip: don't hang out with people who are idiots. It desensitizes you.

    Anyway, now that the fun judge-y stuff is out of the way, whatever those other guys said.
    Please point to the part of the law that requires these references. I'll wait.
    Trump. Duh. Really? Who would fall for that? -- Thanks, Pilot321 for the inspiration

  10. #20
    Join Date
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    Default Re: LTCF woes

    Also he explained why, and sadly a lot of guy will leave you hanging like that. Same kind of asshole that calls you, leaves a message to call back, you do 2 min later and they don't pick up or take 3 days to call you back.
    TriggerTime LLc 01/02 FFL CRSO/Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun inst. BSA Rifle/Shotgun MB Counselor

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