ATF Rule 41F finalized--CLEO signoff removed, everyone on trust must get BG check

[phillyd2]

Is there any more detail on how the notification is suppose to happen? I know with a C&R a simple letter sent was enough but I don't think there is any mechanism to make sure they got it, if it was lost in the mail or if it was never sent.

Overall I think this is good news for so many that had to deal with their local CLEO. If the cost was to have those with a Trust go through a background check I'm not opposed to paying it.

[ExFlyinguy]

Is there any more detail on how the notification is suppose to happen? I know with a C&R a simple letter sent was enough but I don't think there is any mechanism to make sure they got it, if it was lost in the mail or if it was never sent.

Overall I think this is good news for so many that had to deal with their local CLEO. If the cost was to have those with a Trust go through a background check I'm not opposed to paying it.

I get a little confused over some of this legal mumbo jumbo.

Let's start with background check. PICS/NICS is a background check. Unless I'm mistaken a trust/corp is(or was) technically exempt from having a PICS check done although each time I bought a silencer the Dealer ran a PICS on me despite the fact that I was using a Trust.

Okay moving on....why the fingerprints/photgraphs are needed to do a BGC on NFA items is beyond my comprehension?

[phillyd2]

I get a little confused over some of this legal mumbo jumbo.

Let's start with background check. PICS/NICS is a background check. Unless I'm mistaken a trust/corp is(or was) technically exempt from having a PICS check done although each time I bought a silencer the Dealer ran a PICS on me despite the fact that I was using a Trust.

Okay moving on....why the fingerprints/photgraphs are needed to do a BGC on NFA items is beyond my comprehension?

I've never done a trust but ATF must use NIC, not PICS. Why your local dealer ran PICS I have no clue.

[Thompson]

The filing is hilarious. They got 12. Literally like 12 of something north of 100k responses that were in support of the draft rule. 11 of those were likely Valarie Jarret.

I heard, apparently, that the ATF is bringing in another 200 agents ... we'll see.

Okay moving on....why the fingerprints/photgraphs are needed to do a BGC on NFA items is beyond my comprehension?

Does anything the ATF does make sense?

I've never done a trust but ATF must use NIC, not PICS. Why your local dealer ran PICS I have no clue.

Sounds like maybe said dealer tried to make a few bucks.

[ExFlyinguy]

I heard, apparently, that the ATF is bringing in another 200 agents ... we'll see.

Does anything the ATF does make sense?

Sounds like maybe said dealer tried to make a few bucks.

Dealer doesn't make any money on background check...they are charged by the PSP for the process and have to remit what they collect to PSP. It may have been a CYA SOP for that dealer. That being said $5 isn't a big deal to me, and as I mentioned I'm not 100% sure if the BGC was or wasn't required.

And "NO" IMHO the ATF and NFA don't make much sense.

[Thompson]

Dealer doesn't make any money on background check...they are charged by the PSP for the process and have to remit what they collect to PSP.

Ohhhh. Did not know that. I always thought dealers just tacked that on for "convenience"

[GunLawyer001]

. . .

Sounds like maybe said dealer tried to make a few bucks.

I advise my dealer clients to run PICS if there's any question at all. Dealers have been sued for not magically "knowing" somehow that a person intended to misuse a firearm, or intended to sell it, even if they passed PICS. There are powerful forces out there, looking to make precedents and hurt the firearms industry, and they will happily stoop to attacking some one-man FFL. In fact, they prefer it, because the legal defense will be easier to overcome.

Here's an example of douchebags frivolously suing the gun industry, goaded on by the usual suspects:

"Sandy and Lonnie Phillips, whose daughter, Jessica Ghawi, was one of 12 people killed in the July 2012 attack, had sued four online retailers that provided bullets, gun magazines and body armor alleged to have been used in the shooting. They accused the retailers of selling the items without concern about the mental fitness of the buyer or the items' intended use."

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27...t-against-ammo

The defendants won, but it cost them a lot, even with the fee-shifting for some of them.

The cost to the purchaser of undergoing PICS is small; the cost to a dealer of being sued for that 1 time out of 1,000 that something goes sideways, is huge, probably crippling. Taking the extra step of running PICS on an NFA transfer is basic self-defense.

[splink]

I have a question that I am sure has been answered elsewhere and I believe that I already know the answer but since the question of whether or not a trust is worth it anymore I will ask. If I go through the process, as an individual, to purchase a suppressor and/or sbr am I the ONLY person that is allowed to use/touch/look at/think about it? Or, is my wife/child/parent/brother/friend able to fire off a few shots at the range with my sbr/suppressor? Is there a clear understanding of this available?

[ExFlyinguy]

I have a question that I am sure has been answered elsewhere and I believe that I already know the answer but since the question of whether or not a trust is worth it anymore I will ask. If I go through the process, as an individual, to purchase a suppressor and/or sbr am I the ONLY person that is allowed to use/touch/look at/think about it? Or, is my wife/child/parent/brother/friend able to fire off a few shots at the range with my sbr/suppressor? Is there a clear understanding of this available?

I'm not a lawyer, but non-prohibited person(s) can use the item in your presence, but if you go so does the item. HTH.

[Rosco the Iroc]

They can't refuse to accept the notification. If you're worried about that, just mail it to your CLEO through Certified Mail with a signature required. Once the letter is signed for by the CLEO office, submit your Forms to the FBI and BATFE. If the CLEO tries to raise a ruckus, show that the notification was signed for by his office - as legally required under the law.

Tell tht to some of the sheriffs around here.