Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Question Concealed Carry on board a train?

    Hello everyone. I am new to the organization. I have been a 2nd ammendment advocate for as long as I can recall, and have been legaly carrying since I was 21 years old (I am 42 now).

    My employer is sending me to Philly early in September for some training, and I plan on taking Amtrak from Pittsburgh to Philly. My question is regarding the laws sourounding concealed carry on board Amtrak trains or at their facilitys and what I should expect and any hints as to how I should handle this trip.

    I will have a great deal of extra time on my hands before and after the training session so I will be enjoying the sites of the city and I would not feel comfortable if I was not able to take my pistol with me for the trip.

    Thoughts and comments?

    Dean

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    You've got three basic choices:

    1. Leave the firearm at home
    2. Find a different mode of transportation
    3. Be prepared for lengthy, expensive litigation
    Get your "Guns Save Lives" stickers today! PM for more info.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    troll Free. It's all in your mind.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    I was just woundering what law I would be breaking. Is there a federal law that prohibits carry on rail? Or is this similar to carrying in a mall and being asked to leave if found with a gun due to a "policy".

    I mean am I looking at a differance of refusal of service or being arrested for violation of some law?
    Last edited by Deanernet; August 7th, 2008 at 07:01 AM. Reason: Spelling
    They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty
    or security- Benjamin Franklin

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    I don't know about carrying on the Amtrak.

    Little story. My son 19 1/2 travels back and forth from Erie to NYC and back again frequently by Amtrak. Same train times both ways.

    My son has always been a knife carrier. The first time he went from Erie to NYC, I was concerned about his safety getting off in Penn Station and then taking the subway. We are both NYers and know the dangers there. I insisted he take his knife. We became a little concerned about the security at the stations. I figured the security at the stations would be the same or quite similar to that of the airports.

    I took him to Walmart and he bought a cheap knife. I figured if he "lost" it at security, no biggie. I didn't want him to lose one of his expensive knives. When I dropped him off at the Erie train station, I waited till the train came and left. I did not go inside. I wanted to be there just in case of an arrest or a detainment. I was prepared for something to happen.

    Nothing happened at either stations. No metal detection, no security.......nothing. He carries one of his knives every time he travels by Amtrak. I am still quite surprised that after 9/11, especially in NYC that there is no security of any sort in either stations. Just walk on the train with your ticket. They don't even check your id.

    My son is on the quiet side. Although, he still at 19 has not graduated to the more mature dress. Frankly he's a sloppy dressed young man. Black concert tee shirts and baggy jeans or sweats. He's never been tapped on the shoulder, ever.

    I'm just telling you about the Amtrak experiences my son has had. I am not in any way suggesting you do anything illegal.

    Oh, and btw, there are no signs of any kind on the train station entry door in Erie regarding weapons. I guess if its not posted as being taboo, it isn't.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deanernet View Post
    I was just woundering what law I would be breaking. Is there a federal law that prohibits carry on rail? Or is this similar to carrying in a mall and being asked to leave if found with a gun due to a "policy".

    I mean am I looking at a differance of refusal of service or being arrested for violation of some law?
    I've seen this discussed before on this and other forums, but haven't heard of any case law where it's been upheld or invalidated: Under the AMTRAK terms of service, you agree to be governed by the laws and to be under the jurisdiction of the District of Columbia - that's right, the same Washington D.C. that defines semi-automatic handguns as "machine guns" in the post-Heller world.

    http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...49471&ssid=149
    Governing Law

    All travel on, and transactions with, Amtrak is governed by the laws of the District of Columbia, United States of America, without regards to its principles of conflicts of law. You agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of any State or Federal court located in the District of Columbia, United States of America, and waive any jurisdictional, venue or inconvenient forum objections to such courts.
    Again, I'm not aware of anybody being arrested for carrying firearms on AMTRAK outside of D.C. and being arraigned/processed/tried/etc. in D.C. I'm not volunteering to be the test case, either. I'd recommend taking a bus, flying, or renting a car for your Pittsburgh to Philly trip if you want to carry.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    it says on amtrak's tickets and all of their signs and stuff that you cannot carry any weapons(goes on to list all kinds of things, knives, bats, brass knuckies) but i always carry from philly to lancaster
    sig sauer p239 .357 sig DC(open carry for now)
    witness .40s&w
    .22mag/lr revolver
    .22 remington rifle semiauto
    12 ga moss 500 pistol grip(loaded with slug hollow points)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    My son has always been a knife carrier. The first time he went from Erie to NYC, I was concerned about his safety getting off in Penn Station and then taking the subway. We are both NYers and know the dangers there. I insisted he take his knife. We became a little concerned about the security at the stations. I figured the security at the stations would be the same or quite similar to that of the airports.
    Penn Station is actually fairly safe although I have little expierence with the NY Subway. Since 9/11 there's LOTS,I mean lots of LE there. Along that route Philly & Trenton NJ are way worse.

    I insisted he take his knife.
    A knife would require some training to use effectively in a SD situation.

    Little story. My son 19 1/2 travels back and forth from Erie to NYC and back again frequently by Amtrak. Same train times both ways.
    Does he change trains in Philly?? There is no preemption for knife laws in PA like there is for gun laws. I believe Philly has an ordinance banning the carrying of knives.

    I figured the security at the stations would be the same or quite similar to that of the airports.
    NO...no way. However NJ & NY probably have different laws reguarding knives than PA. I would keep the blade under 3 1/2 inch. I'm just guessing not giving hard advice. AND I believe federal law may govern behavior on Amtrak trains,but I'm not sure.

    I'm not telling anyone to break the law. But if he keeps a low profile & does not cause any problems he will probably be OK. From my expierence,most people who come in contact with LE during rail travel do so because they caused a problem on the train & the conductor summoned the police.

    Rule 1...don't f*#k with the train crew.
    Rule 2...don't call attention to yourself or do anything stupid.
    Follow these rules & you'll just blend in with the crowd.

    From expierence,I know of way more people injured or killed on/near the railroad from carelessness & stupidity than from crime.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    Sounds like, as with many firearms related things, it is a very gray area. I am not getting a warm fuzzy feeling in regards to this whole thing, however I most likely am going to have to carry since I will be going to downtown Philly at night. The trip is not optional and I value my safety.

    I am going to have to trust that as was suggested, if I mind my own business (which I do) that I will not have any problems. I can only hope that if I am stapped, the worst I will get is asked to leave the train or denied boarding.

    I will be carrying a CZ-83 so it should be small enough to not be too visable when worn.

    I just wish this was more clear cut.
    They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty
    or security- Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Concealed Carry on board a train?

    Quote Originally Posted by reverserboy View Post
    Penn Station is actually fairly safe although I have little expierence with the NY Subway. Since 9/11 there's LOTS,I mean lots of LE there. Along that route Philly & Trenton NJ are way worse.

    A knife would require some training to use effectively in a SD situation.

    Does he change trains in Philly?? There is no preemption for knife laws in PA like there is for gun laws. I believe Philly has an ordinance banning the carrying of knives.

    NO...no way. However NJ & NY probably have different laws reguarding knives than PA. I would keep the blade under 3 1/2 inch. I'm just guessing not giving hard advice. AND I believe federal law may govern behavior on Amtrak trains,but I'm not sure.

    I'm not telling anyone to break the law. But if he keeps a low profile & does not cause any problems he will probably be OK. From my expierence,most people who come in contact with LE during rail travel do so because they caused a problem on the train & the conductor summoned the police.

    Rule 1...don't f*#k with the train crew.
    Rule 2...don't call attention to yourself or do anything stupid.
    Follow these rules & you'll just blend in with the crowd.

    From expierence,I know of way more people injured or killed on/near the railroad from carelessness & stupidity than from crime.
    After living 45+ years in the bowels of NYC, i'm not inclined to call anywhere "fairly safe". Penn Station is no exception. The security (law enforcement) is a sad joke.

    My son grew up in NYC, so he is no stranger to the dangers. He's proficient with a knife as a weapon. Now worries on that account. That is why I insisted he carry his/a knife while traveling. In a strange way it makes me feel better. He is too young to carry a concealed firearm. Even if he was of age and did have an LTCF, carrying a firearm to/in NYC is a BIG NO NO! My son is not a fan of handguns anyway, his weapon of choice is a knife. You are correct about the length of the blade. In NY it must be no longer than your four fingers. I'm glad my son got the huge hands gene.

    He doesn't have to change trains at all, its a straight run both to and from.

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