Face-to-face firearm sales between NJ residents in PA

[daschnoz]

Welcome to PAFOA - where we sometimes forget that not everyone is a gun law Jedi.

So as I understand it, you want to trade your rifle for a handgun - straight up.

You are both residents of the People's Republic of New Jersey. The transfer must happen in PRNJ, and I would bet, being PRNJ, an FFL is required. You can both either ship your firearms to eachother's FFLs, or meet at an FFL somewhere in the middle.

I'm not 100% sure - I think you will need to have a valid pistol purchase permit, so it may be more difficult than a simple road trip. The other guy only needs his NJ FOID for a long gun purchase/transfer.

Start with a trip to your local gun store (they deal with these BS laws every day) and ask if a pistol purchase permit is required to purchase from a private owner. If it is, get that ball rolling. Figure out, between you and the other guy, how to handle the rest of the transaction since there will be some lag as your local police department process your application.

- OR -

You can both move out to PA and do the transfer of the pistol at a PA FFL. No FFL is required for private long gun sales here either.

[streaker69]

Knock it the fuck off right now. If you know what he's doing wrong then explain it to him instead of insulting him. Further crap like this will lead to an infraction.

[Statkowski]

What specifically is illegal? I know it is illegal for PA residents to engage in a private (non-FFL) transfer of handguns in PA, but does this same rule apply to NJ residents in PA?

See http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...1.011.000..HTM

Nowhere does 18 Pa. C.S. § 6111(c) (Sale or transfer of firearms) address Pa. residents vs. non-Pa. residents. It specifically addresses any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person. You're a person, the other person is a person. If you're transferring a firearm (which, in this case means a handgun), in Pennsylvania it must be done through either an FFL or a County Sheriff unless the transfer is between spouses or is a transfer between a parent and child a grandparent and grandchild.

Handgun aside, can I still legally sell him my rifle in a private (non-FFL) transaction in Pennsylvania? The same way I could do it in NJ?

In New Jersey you would have to comply with New Jersey's laws concerning the rifle, whatever they are. No, you can't skate those laws by doing the transfer in Pennsylvania. Federal law (not cited here) requires that such rifle transfers only apply in a state where the transferers are both residents of that state. Out-of-staters would have to do the transfer through an FFL per federal law. In other words, only Pennsylvania residents can transfer rifles to each other, as long as the transfer takes place in Pennsylvania. Not a Pennsylvania resident? FFL.

[jokin'dull]

You are both residents of the People's Republic of New Jersey. The transfer must happen in PRNJ, and I would bet, being PRNJ, an FFL is required.

No requirement to go through FFL for rifles, shotguns OR handguns. In fact 100% legal face-to-face transactions happen every day over armslist.com and njgunforums.com - Only requirement (for rifles and shotguns) is that the buyer posses a valid FID card and fills out Certificate of Eligibility which is retained by both parties (no need to mail to state police). For handguns a purchaser's permit is needed, which is mailed off to the state and buyer's local police. Process for getting the pistol purchaser permits (a.k.a. PPP's) is a pita but its actually much cheaper than FFL transfer fees. I can get 5 PPP's for $30. Try finding an FFL who will transfer a single handgun for that cost.

Can you tell me if it is legal for me to sell my rifle to an NJ resident in PA without having to go through an FFL? There might be a federal law against this, but based on what I'm reading I don't see any PA law against it...

EDIT: Statkowski answered this for me. Thanks.

[daschnoz]

Seriously dude, keep it in NJ. As soon as the transfer crosses state lines, an FFL MUST be involved.

[Statkowski]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

18 U.S. Code § 922(a)(3): [It shall be unlawful] for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

[Gunsnwater]

Interstate commerce law was used against a farmer who ate his own corn. What could possibly make a person think the gov would not mind an interstate transaction such as described. I felt as if the question was a plant. I'm sure Repo picked up on this. If this was a real question from a real person who has a second real person ready to perform said interstate transaction for the sake of saving some gas ( and N.J. has dirt cheap gas right now ) , well bless their little hearts.

Nobody addressed the transportation of handgun interstate. To be covered the destination must be lawful. The transfer is not so the transportation isn't either. IANAL O.P. you need a lawyer. It's the only way to answer your question. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.

[God's Country]

jokin, why not meet at a gun dealer in central jersey?

shooters in tuckerton on 539, howell gun works on 9 just below freehold, p&k on bay ave in Manahawkin....just sayin'

I'm guessing the OP doesn't want to wait the 30+++++days, plus finger printing, etc., etc.,etc., he will need to go through to legally transfer the handgun to himself, and is hoping the this can be avoided, which it cannot.

OP, you may be able to transfer the long gun, but it will not help with the handgun. I guess a PA FFL could do the long, which seems pointless, if both parties had their FOID cards and you could find a FFL willing to do it. Pa does not allow FTF transfer of handguns except between residents in certain circumstances that do not apply here. FTF transfer of long guns are OK, but only between residents, so that does not apply in this case. If you could do the handgun it would still need to be shipped to a NJ FFL to finalize the transfer, so either way you are stuck going through NJ's process.

[jakebrake]

I'd just rather he wait 30, rather than lose 180 in county while shit gets hashed out.

[jokin'dull]

I'm guessing the OP doesn't want to wait the 30+++++days, plus finger printing, etc., etc.,etc., he will need to go through to legally transfer the handgun to himself, and is hoping the this can be avoided, which it cannot.

I don't have to go through any of that. I wasn't trying to skirt any laws. The only benefit to meeting up in PA is shorter driving distance -that's it. But it appears unanimously that everyone here says that the transfer of the rifle is illegal under federal law and the transfer of the handgun is illegal under PA law. I'll be insistent that a legitimate face-to-face trade will have to happen in NJ. Most likely at a shooting range or gun shop parking lot.