TAKE A MINUTE AND LOOK AT THIS

[glock27owner]

just saw this full page add in the new "guns and ammo"..had to share it with my friends at pafoa.org

[ErSwnn]

While I do know that Sen. Barack is pro gun control I don't trust any such ads. Damn near every ad of any sort is full of bullshit. Their only purpose is to extract your money from your pocket or sway you to their side. I see no references whatsoever citing specifics to those claims. What bills did he vote for that expressed gun control, and more importantly, what was the real issue that particular bill was about? So many things are added as riders to bills that have nothing to do with the meat of the bill. A proposed law to stop nuclear waste from being dumped in the woods (a no brainer good idea) might also include a rider giving free pornography to convicted sex offenders. Pork barrel projects are included in every bill, even though the "project" has no relation to the original bill. It's Washington politics. Give me your vote and I'll give you mine. Which is a good argument for Presidential line item vetoes. Cull out the extranous crap and enact the law the bill intended, and just that law. Read the typical bill and you'll find more bullshit than you can imagine. That's if you can find the ENTIRE bill. Websites for politicans will usually only post the parts they want you to applaude them for. You need to contact a congressman's office and specify what bill you wish to see and specify you want the entire bill....every word of it, otherwise you get what they want you to see. As you may be able to tell, I don't care for politics as they are. We are lied to everyday by the people WE elect to safeguard our Constitution. I'm a big fan of Sen. McCain but don't believe half of what he says either. Good politicans have to become part of the system as it is to stay in office and eventually fall into the trap. Lies, deceit, cronnies, and deals. So, before looking at such an ad as this one, consider the lies it might be telling, or at least the whole story it might be concealing.

[LittleRedToyota]

While I do know that Sen. Barack is pro gun control I don't trust any such ads. Damn near every ad of any sort is full of bullshit. Their only purpose is to extract your money from your pocket or sway you to their side. I see no references whatsoever citing specifics to those claims.

i don't blame you one bit for being skeptical...but, in this case, the citations do exist to back what the ad says.

here are a few of them:

obama' stance on concealed carry:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_560181.html

"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

and as cited at: http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm

Obama says, "National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents." David Mendell, "Democratic hopefuls vary a bit on death penalty," Chicago Tribune, February 20, 2004.

obama on banning handguns/AWBs/etc.

from: http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007...003_iviip.html which lists his answers to the "IVI-IPO 2004 US SENATE QUESTIONNAIRE"

35. Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of
a. handguns?

While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; and require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law.

b. assault weapons?

Yes.

c. ammunition for handguns and assault weapons?

I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns.

36. Do you support legislation
a. mandating background checks of purchasers of weapons at gun shows, through the internet and through print advertisements?

Yes.

note that he does not say he does not support a ban on handguns, only that it is "not politically practical" (read: yes, i support it, but i know i can't get away with it.)

from 1996 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire.

"35. Do you support state legislation ???

a. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of handguns?

Yes.

b. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of assault weapons?

Yes.

here is some more interesting reading:

http://www.sportsmenforobama.org/content/view/14/27/

http://www.issues2000.org/celeb/Bara...un_Control.htm

obama is as anti-gun as they come. there really is no question.

[Qtrborecrazy]

Thank you LittleRedToyota

Qtrborecrazy

[Brown-Bear]

Ahhh. How I love election season. I have no real reason to believe anything that is in any of thses ads, they(the candidates, and their camp's) are all into the mud slinging. Its just easier to get you to not like their opponent than it is to get you to like them.

Its nothing new you know. Even our esteemed "founding fathers" had nothing nice to say during this time of year. You don't believe me. During the election of 1800 Alexander Hamilton while running for president called Arron Burr, seeking the vice presidency for the other party an "aldulteror, and scoundral" He also accused Burr of seducing the teenage daughter of a fellow repersentative.

I don't hold the ads real high, but rather I try to listen to see what the candidate has to say, and then see if his actions either past or future reflect the same.

[Gallo]

I am not much into politics myself. I find myself choosing between the best of two evils. However, the fact is that there will be a new president in the White House. You pick and choose the agendas of each of the candidates as well as their history in the positions they hold.

The problem for many Democrats today, that are gun owners and have always fought for gun rights is, what do they do with a Democrat candidate that clearly stands in the regulation of guns, and clearly has indicated that he is against conceal carry of a firearm? How does a gunowner make a decision to vote for a candidate that stands against many of the principles surrounding gun ownership and the rights that we all, at least in this forum, hold dear to us...

This is the American way. You have the freedom to vote for your candidate regardless of what party you stand behind. Your choice. Your vote. Your rights. No cry of foul later on. Just live up to it... It is each and everyone's responsibility to make an informed vote.

Again, the best of two evils. No perfect candidate, just who aligns as close as possible with your beliefs....

[ErSwnn]

Red...I greatly appreciate your allowing me my opinion without being rude as to your own. I'll take it on faith that you cited ligitimate references on the quotes due to your past posts being accurate and sensible. Yes, I am skepitical, even cynical to political and commercial ads. But thank you so much for giving me more to go on, it'll come in handy this election. I know Sen. Obama isn't on our side but seeing just how far apart we are is disturbing. There is more involved than just gun rights and I do agree with a few of his points in that issue but the depth of his antism might be showing of narrowmindedness in those other issues. Now....in light of your kindness towards me and your obvious concern for our rights I'm going to make a donation to PAFOA to keep fighting for those rights. Thank you Red.

[LittleRedToyota]

Thank you Red.

no problem. i really do share your skepticism of politcal ads. i don't believe anything in any of them unless i corroborate it for myself.

and when obama first came on the scene, i, too, thought he was an interesting character--a welcome change from bush and company...he almost sounded like a thoughtful, rational, libertarian at first. but, then, as i learned more about him, i realized he is basically, imho, a full of shit socialist nanny stater...and clearly very, very anti-gun. and his stances on several issues (including, but not limited to guns) are clearly not based on any kind of rational analysis of actual evidence.

and, on behalf of the rest of PAFOA, thanks for your donation!! glad to have you aboard.

[Ten*K]

personally, im not for any of the twats that have "D" or "R" after their name, because none of them give a cold shit about the Constitution, or the People for which it was written.

[JP8]

LMAO!
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