New York State Police have launched an investigation into alleged SAFE Act violations

[NRA Member]

And so it begins. Governor Cuomo feels froggy, SAFE Act enforcement thugs rounding up "assault weapons." Someone is going to get shot and the civil war will commence.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/

Two months ago, the State of New York began to enforce, in little baby steps, the SAFE Act.

Today, we have this announcement posted on AR15dotCoam:

"The New York State Police have launched an investigation into alleged SAFE Act violations and appear to have possession or copies of 4473s showing who purchased firearms. Consider speaking with a lawyer if contacted."

Just exactly where and how the NYSP got hold of 4473s is an interesting question. They either got them from ATF industry operations inspectors or directly from cooperating quisling gun sellers. In any case, it is obvious that the Supreme Court refusal to hear the Chicago case is viewed as a green light to tyrannical gun raids. Isn't this where His Majesty's General Gage started? And how did THAT turn out? We are about to find out if this generation of Americans possesses the same Three Percent that the Founding generation did.

Get ready folks. Make your final pre-war preparations with the slender hours you have left. A storm is coming, and it is about to break over all our heads.

[Ricochet]

I feel that sadly, you won't see anyone stand up and defend freedom in NY.
They will hand over their guns like its Halloween candy and the police are trick or treaters.

[ungawa]

I feel that sadly, you won't see anyone stand up and defend freedom in NY.
They will hand over their guns like its Halloween candy and the police are trick or treaters.

Handing over guns times is past. This is jail time.

[IIIIIREPOIIIII]

[Wilderness 1864]

I feared that the NYT front page editorial presaged this sort of event. There were amping up the hate in that one, a real call to war. Cuomo is feeling his oats. I read stories but do not know if they are true, to the effect that many NY citizens were quietly just refusing to comply. I think he wants this confrontation and any accompanying violence to establish himself as the biggest gun grabber on the stage for both personal political and idealogical reasons. That is the special kind of tyrant that he may prove to be. Watch NY closely because we are seeing the results of backdoor registration play out (one of the reasons that I criticize Toomey for his anti gun efforts). I always wondered what stopped the government from simply issuing a subpoena to gun retailers and credit card companies. The State simply says they have reason to believe that a crime has been committed (someone bought a banned firearm and did not register or sell it and a compliant liberal judge rubber stamps a search warrant). We may find out. I also suspect that the entire NICS database is still out there in some government electronic archive and that the government uses it, but will not admit it.

I just checked the SCOPENY and NYSRPA websites. They have no reports of the activity discussed in this thread.

[Deleted]

There is no cite in that "blog"... Will believe it when there is some evidence to go with it.

[steve_010]

All it takes is 3% to fight back.....

[spacemanvic]

From NYFirearms.com:

"All,

I would like to pass along this message from WYSL's Bob Savage:

This is WYSL's Bob Savage with an urgent message. If you purchased a firearm from the former Jackson Guns and Ammo stores in Henrietta and Scottsville, be aware that the New York State Police are currently investigating that business. They have obtained purchase records via the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and are cross-referencing assault weapon purchases against the SAFE Act registry. If you are contacted by the State Police about your purchase from Jackson Guns, DO NOT VOLUNTEER information. You might inadvertently incriminate yourself... you may, without criminal intent, subject yourself to arrest. All calls from New York State Police Investigators should be referred to your attorney.

Be sure to brief other members of the family and make sure they understand they should not respond or volunteer information about your guns either. An arrest on a firearms charge is a serious matter which can change your life drastically, so be very careful about your actions. Again... do not talk to State Police directly, but cooperate with their investigation only with the advice of counsel. If you are not currently represented, we suggest you contact Paul Ciminelli or any other attorney well versed in Second Amendment matters and firearms ownership. This has been an announcement in your legal interests from The Voice Of Liberty, WYSL AM & FM. "

[knight0334]

Using the 4473 to create or maintain a registry is a violation of Federal law.


That is why PA uses a separate form, because if the PSP used copies of the 4473 they too would be in violation.

[spacemanvic]

Another person was contacted by the NYSP via information gleamed from 4473.

Geographic reference - Rochester, NY region
Yes, I'm the guy that IM'd Aimless yesterday.

For the tldr crowd:

I had my personal canary-in-the-coal-mine this week. I feel the rules have changed.

If you have ANY FIREARM in New York State get the contact information for a local firearms attorney TODAY.
Run a mental drill on how you would handle being contacted by law enforcement regarding your firearms purchases.
Run a mental drill on how you would handle law enforcement showing up at your door with a warrant. I'm not talking about fighting back here - more along the lines of what is in plain sight and do your family members also have that lawyers contact info from #1 above?



Let's also get this out of the way:

Don't talk to the police dumb-ass!
Get a lawyer idiot!
WHY the HELL do you live in NY?
FUAC!
87!



So hopefully at this point you are reading for content. I'm not looking to argue gun control, SAFE ACT details, or what LEO's can/can't do. There are enough of those threads. I'm sharing this as a cautionary tale. Hopefully you will run your own mental exercises as you read on. I kinda feel like I'm writing to Penthouse Forum - you know, the "I never thought it would happen to me, but the other day...".

3:20pm Monday 12/7/2015
I received a cell phone call from a local phone number. Normally I'd send it to voicemail because I didn't recognize it, but the contacts on the phone are messed up and I am expecting some work on the property, so I answer. A woman identifies herself by name as a New York State Police Investigator. She is calling me in regards to an ongoing investigation into Jackson Guns and Ammo (now closed FFL in Henrietta, NY, Monroe county) for SAFE ACT violations. She has details from a form 4473 on a transfer I made there after 1/15/2013. She asked if I still had the firearm. I indicated I did, She said they needed to inspect it for compliance. She did say the investigation is focused on the dealer, not me. If my firearm is not compliant it will be seized as evidence but will eventually be returned after being made compliant.
We agreed to meet at the NYSP Troop E barracks in Farmington the next day.
The call lasted 3:17

WHAT!?!?!?! I actually CAN hear you yelling at me on the internet ;-)

Here's the thing - I know something that you do not know (I am not left handed! -The Princess Bride).

WTF was I thinking?

Recon - what are they doing?
Knowing the time and place of the encounter - I don't really want to deal with a warrant at home. They couldn't get a warrant you say? Sure. Just like they couldn't get the 4473 right?
I would have survived having that firearm seized - it's not a great gun and it would result in a payday.


6:00pm Tuesday 12/8/2015
I showed up at the Troop E barracks at the designated time with the long gun in a locked case and left it in my truck as discussed during the phone conversation. The Trooper on the desk let them know I was there and the two investigators came out to meet me. We went out to the truck and I had them handle the case, bringing it back inside to a conference room. I notice two long gun evidence boxes at the back - one open and empty, the other closed. I give them they key to unlock the case and describe the safe removal of the shotgun magazine. The magwell already had a nice big yellow blocker/chamber flag inserted. Did y'all just say what? Yeah, so did they. The firearm in question is a novelty firearm - the Crossfire Mk 1. More detail on it below. The short answer is that it is NOT SEMI-AUTOMATIC! There was a fair bit of conversation around it and one inspector did need to check the rules for a pistol grip rifle, but I was out of there within 15 minutes after my arrival. At all times the troopers were professional and courteous. I did get a business card before leaving.


So how did they get the 4473's?
Does it really matter? They have them. It may be related to the (unrelated) civil seizure earlier.

Why your firearm?
It is not well known. I believe it was flagged for being 5.56. It doesn't help that at least one site includes the phrase "selective fire" in the description. My caution on this is around the caliber, not the rarity. If there are business records out there that link you to AR/AK calibers for legal transactions in the past, they could haunt your future, This isn't just the firearms themselves - ammo, magazines, parts, etc. In my case the transaction was almost THREE years old!

Yes, when all is said and done I am still a dumb-ass. So please post any good Rochester area firearms lawyers to this thread for the benefit of everyone. If the firearm was semi-auto I would have taken a different path. In this case I thought it was silly and I rolled the dice.

Cheers!

PS - it was dark and they did not get a look at the back of the truck. There is a nice bio-hazard BFL on the tailgate!

The reference links I posted earlier:
http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-po...t-related.html
http://nyfirearms.com/forums/firearm...ammo-deep.html

The firearm in question:
http://www.thespecialistsltd.com/crossfire-mk1
The Crossfire Mk1 is a unique weapon in that it is a 12-gauge/5.56x45mm over/under, selective fire, repeating, pump action rifle/shotgun.