Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals

    FYI only:

    -in the lobby on the guard's desk, they have a sign that says any application received today will not be available for pick up until at least January 4th.
    -I asked one of the workers (early 50s, black, medium build, glasses, some blond hairs in her weave) what was the current expected processing time and was told 10 weeks. When I reminded her of the 45 days processing in the settlement, I was informed "there will have to be another settlement".
    -I asked a second worker (the slightly thin white woman who does the fingerprinting) if I could expect my app to be processed in about 45 days. She responder that they were backed up and thought it would be longer.
    -For the line of people looking to pick up (it has to be done in person) approved licenses, they were told that a fuze in the machine to print licenses had blown and they needed a key to reset it (they could not provide any ball park estimates as to how long that would be).


    I will see what actually happens. My renewal app should take all of 10 minutes at most to process (squeaky clean and complete).

    My guess is that I will have to rely on 18 Pa.C.S. 6106. (2) (b) Exceptions (http://www.psp.pa.gov/firearms-infor...nsylvania.aspx / http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...tn=6&subsctn=0 ) and carry a printout of same due to Philadelphia breaking the law and also disregarding their recent court legal settlement. Given the number of people who appear to work in the Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit (from what I saw, clearly at least a half dozen, likely more) and the lower volume of LTCF new application and renewals processed by Philadelphia compared to a variety of other counties (only 7,146 in all of 2014 as per http://www.psp.pa.gov/firearms-infor...ual_Report.pdf ), this delay appears purely political.


    6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to: [...]


    (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
    Last edited by inrem; November 17th, 2015 at 03:12 PM.

  2. #2
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    "The Country", Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals

    Contact the NRA and see if there is a lawyer who they can recommend. See if a lawyer will do a class action lawsuit against the city.
    "The Constitution is the guide which I will not abandon. - George Washington

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    127.0.0.1, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals

    Philly doesn't follow the law, why would they follow a legal settlement? You saw for yourself how much they actually care about the settlement and the law.
    Rules are written in the stone,
    Break the rules and you get no bones,
    all you get is ridicule, laughter,
    and a trip to the house of pain.

  4. #4
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals

    Before I can decide how to proceed, I would likely need standing - i.e. that Philly does not actually process my paperwork on or about day 45.

    If that does not happen, my next intended step would to get pushy re: the violation of both law and the recent court order -
    https://princelaw.files.wordpress.co...oval-order.pdf

    If that does not work, the next step would be more significant action, including potentially personally notifying the court, as a friend of the court, that the 2014 settlement order was being violated and not by accident. I would hope things would never get to that point or above that point.

    On a practical basis (especially for a renewal app), the Gun Permit Unit could simply run (a) a PICS, and (b) a search of any arrests/etc. (things short of convictions) that might be in some proprietary Philly and/or PA database that might somehow not get reported to PICS, and then be satisfied that their vetting has been done to a far more than reasonable standard. As people applying for LTCF are mostly a select bunch with generally very clean records and most “apps” are renewals, figure 95%+ of background checks for are likely clearable in 15 minutes (on average) of work, with 5% or less needing a second level review (Note: I would assume if you had decent computer system integration and databases, you could probably clear reviews at least twice as fast). With that assumption and using the circa 2014, 7,146 total LTCF in Philly, a level-one screening that would clear 95%+ people for approval (assuming 15 minutes per review) should be doable, by a single staffer, at the rate of 7 hours * 48 weeks a year (assume holidays and vacations) = 6720 apps a year. Have a second staffer supplement level 1 and run level two reviews as needed, there should be no backlog.

    If Philly was to change the non-required-by-law and Philly unique current defacto procedure requiring a second in-person visit after LTCF approval to take a photo - i.e. just to make the app harder procedure (and replace it by mailing the LTCF card to anyone who can supply a self-addressed stamped envelope or a couple bucks for a fee for a "send by mail" option), you could also significantly increase the current rate of applicant processing (and make the process and taking off time from work very much materially easier on the applicants). Delete the Philly unique other requirements to make things harder (must pay by a money order - not a personal check or bank check or anything else, must submit a passport photo even though the Gun Permit Unit will take your photo anyway), you could also materially reduce the annoyance of the process. But, that is not what the powers in charge of Philadelphia seem to want.

  5. #5
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    Dover, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals

    Quote Originally Posted by streaker69 View Post
    Philly doesn't follow the law, why would they follow a legal settlement? You saw for yourself how much they actually care about the settlement and the law.
    How much will the judge care that they may be in contempt of court for violating a settlement? Maybe the folks in the black robes need to toss a few people in the clink for 24 hours to remind them that all rights matter!
    Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals


  7. #7
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    Apr 2007
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    Northern Tier, Pennsylvania
    (McKean County)
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    Default Re: Philadelphia Gun Permit Unit is saying 10 weeks for basic renewals

    I know if I violated a court order nothing would happen, so why not Philly?

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