Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Had a minor altercation today.

    I'm bored on a Sunday, so I figured I'd go check a new range, one that's in Pheonixville. I'm running on empty, so before getiting on the highway, I pull into a gas station to fill up. All 10 bays are filled, so I pull up behind a guy at the closest pump. Looks like he just finished up refueling, as he is walking from the pump, and gets into his car. Before he gets into his car, I see him look at me; he had a strange look on his face, as if he he had seen me express displeasure that I had to wait for gas. I had just pulled into the station, so I didn't have any feeling like that at all. The way he looked at me reminded me of a study I had once read about: drivers who have just finished pumping their gas take *longer* to pull out when someone's waiting to pull in behind him. That thought passed into my head, and then out, as I waited for him to drive away. I waited some more. I waited for what seemed like 3 minutes, as he simply sat in his car. Not pumping, not doing anything that I could see.

    After about three minutes waiting, the bay next to me opened up, so I decided to go into that one. Because my fill-up is on the right said of my car, I needed to turn around and back up into the bay. So I did that, no biggie, and a thought went through my mind that the guy must be waiting for someone in the gas station store. I've done that before. Again, no biggie. I get out of the car, and just then the guy starts to pull out. I thought to myself, this guy was making me wait on purpose! I simply looked at him and shook my head. He rolls his window down, and makes some kind of remark, like, "You got a problem?" I said, "No, but thanks for your consideration." I said it calmly, didn't raise my voice, didn't even have much sarcasm in my voice, but my comment was obviously sarcastic. Well, that got the guy all bent out of shape. He drove another 10 feet, stopped his car about 10 feet behind mine. (he's in the middle of the lot now, blocking other drivers.,) and then he made some kind of comment like, "You think you can ....blah blah blah, (i forget the details,) because I'm a black man.?" Huh oh, I thought. A guy with a chip on his shoulder. I said," This has nothing at all to do with race." He says 'i'll put my foot up your ass." He ranted on a little bit, and then I said, "I'll call 911 and we'll have the police here in two minutes. He says," Go ahead, you think you can scare a black man by threatening to call the police?" Jeez, I thought, this guy has a bigger chip on his shoulder than I thought, do I really want to escalate this? I decided to forget about it, and proceeded toward the pump to start pumping. I had never left the area of my car. He's still in his car about 10 feet away. I noticed then that a boy about 9 or 10 is in the back seat.

    Okay, so I have decided to forget the whole thing, and he could tell that I was forgetting about it, and he says again, seeming finish up, putting his bookend on the event, by saying again, something like, "yeah, that's better, or I *will* put my foot up my ass. Well, now I've had enough. I went from willing to forget about the whole thing, thinking it's not worth it, to, this guy is making threats to me. That's illegal, and I'm not going to tolerate it. So I go into my car, get my cell phone, and proceed to call the police. He says, "go ahead and call the police, I'll wait." He then gets out of his car, looks calm,and simply leans against his car door. Again, his car is stopped perpendicular to mine, about 10 feet behind me. I walked away a bit, about twenty feet away from him, and made the call. Two cars come, one LEO goes and talks to him, and asks him what happened. I hear the guy proceed to tell the story, but he adds this little tidbit: "the guy said, 'thanks for your consideration, you -N-word.- He lied! He knew he was wrong I guess, and lied to make his position seem more reasonable.

    The other LEO comes up to me, asked me what happened. I told him what I have written here. He asks whether there were any witnesses, I say, well, I'm sure several people saw and heard what happened, but I guess they went about their business, pumped their gas and left. He then asks for my drivers license. That's when he caught a glance at my LTC. I could tell it caught his eye. The LEO, (a younger guy, about 30,) then asks me, "Do you have anything in the car?' I respond, "Nothing illegal." He then asks, "Do you have a firearm in the car?' I say, rather calmly, "Yes, I was on my way to the range." I had a pistol bag on the floor of my right seat, with two guns, and about six 50 round boxes stuffed in the bag. Anyway, the LEO says, okay, no problem, I simply noticed your LTC. I then say, "Hey, don't tell the other guy have a firearm, or he's probably lie about that too! (I'm thinking he he'll say I was brandishing it.) He tells me he won't mention it.

    About 5 minutes later, I see the other guy get back in his car and drive away. One officer comes up to me, says I can leave. He says since it's my word against the other guy's, about the only thing he could do is write u BOTH up for disorderly contact. He says." You don't want that do you?" Of course, I say no. He say, okay, hope you have a better rest of your Sunday.

    That's it. I drive away, and I thought to myself, can you imagine if I had been OC'ing, or carrying conceiled, but printing a bit. I could have been screwed by the other guy, he probably would have lied about that, and I could have been charged with some offense! And I didn't do anything but say the words, calmly, "Thank you for your consideration."

    Thoughts? Comments? I think I know what I'd do if something like this ever happened agin, but I'd like to hear your comments.
    Last edited by tobor; August 3rd, 2008 at 05:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    Could be the reason that I read person`s who are carrying get into less altercations then those not carrying. Don`t remember where I saw the stats but it would make sense.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Slate Belt Area, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    Well, the "race card" seems to be working well for Obama. Glad you made it out unscathed.
    http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w186/amamruoy/sigline-1-1-1-1.jpg

  4. #4
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    na, Pennsylvania
    (Montgomery County)
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    Quote Originally Posted by tobor View Post
    He rolls his window down, and makes some kind of remark, like, "You got a problem?" I said, "No, but thanks for your consideration."
    I would have ended the incident right there. Personally, I would have let him run his mouth rather than get into some sort of verbal confrontation with him. As you saw, people are willing to lie to get the police on their side. He was an ignorant prick, and there are lots more like him, so its better to just let them run their mouths than get into any more trouble. Especially if you're OC/CC.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    In the future, I would simply avoid talking to ranting strangers. No angry talk, no polite comments, just ignore them.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    NEPA, Pennsylvania
    (Pike County)
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    I'd tend to think that had you been OC-ing that the guy would'nt have said two words...

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    ….., Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    You did well.



    If he was blocking your escape route and was making verbal threats I would have call the police first thing. Remember, just because someone want an argument does not mean you have to enter in to it. As soon as he pulled the race card you knew he has a skewed perspective and a bad attitude. Calm attitude and proper knowledge can't always save you from a situation like this. To de-escalate you have to be able to put yourself in his shoes, that won't happen if he is looking at things differently. It is also a clue that he is not going to play fair anyways.

    If he was not blocking my path I would have left and came back in a few minutes. This does leave him open to follow you to a more secluded area so it has drawbacks.



    Honestly, I think having a firearm ready would be helpful in case he decided to make good on the physical threats. Who cares about "brandishing" and he is already willing to lie. If he has your escape route blocked, verbalized his intent to do you serious bodily harm, and gets close enough to do it you can defend yourself.




    It worked out well in the end so we can't armchair too much. You did good.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Mountain Top, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    Ignoring them (seemingly, to them, but actually paying close attention to what they are up to) from the beginning will avoid such conflicts. But I'm sure you already realize that.

    As for the LEO stating citing both for DC?
    I strongly doubt that would fly. They have none of the evidence needed to satisfy the statutory requirements for DC to stick.
    _________________________________________

    danbus wrote: ...Like I said before, I open carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
    you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
    Remember Meleanie

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    Exbiker

    If I get into less altercation than when I was not carrying, it would be because I would be afraid to somehow get on the wrong side of things, and have my LTC revoked. That's kind of what pissed my off about the whole thing. A person who does nothing wrong has to worry about getting screwed.

    Scrumpyjack

    The thought occured to me that maybe it's been what's happening in the news that has this guy so uptight. McCain has been accusing Obama of using the race card, and he's also been compared to pop-tarts like Paris Hilton. After this incident, I can see how this campaign strategy might piss a few African-Americans off. I wonder is this is an indication of what's to come in this election? Should I pre-emptively buy and display an "Obama for President" sticker? LOL.

    Delco Sig
    I tend to agree with you, but I feel like I'm being blackmailed to keep my mouth shut. As I said, I think the whole thing started when simply shook my head!

    VeryPrivate
    I tend to agree.

    jayPA

    Maybe. I tend to think though it would have provoked him further. Who knows how he would have interpreted the fact that I was OC.

    Joe Smith

    I tend to agree with everything you wrote. I need to add that he was not blocking my way, as I could have simply driven away from him to the front. I was not blocked by him, but he had decided to park his car and wait in an odd place. There were parking spots just a few feet away.

    PA Patriot:

    Yes, I agree that it seems, with 20-20 hindsight, that I should have simply ignored him completely. I have to say though, that completely goes against my nature! Ironic that having a firearm has made me decide that I should become a sheep! Well, that's one way to think of it. I guess one could say that owning a firearm forces me to be a "better person?"

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Had a minor altercation today.

    Quote Originally Posted by tobor View Post
    So I . . . call the police. He says, "go ahead and call the police, I'll wait." He then gets out of his car, looks calm,and simply leans against his car door.

    Two cars come, one LEO goes and talks to him, and asks him what happened.

    About 5 minutes later, I see the other guy get back in his car and drive away.

    Thoughts? Comments? I think I know what I'd do if something like this ever happened agin, but I'd like to hear your comments.

    The guy likely was somebody. A cop from another jurisdiction. The mayor's illegitimate child, somebody.

    The guy made terroristic threats. He threatened to harm you. You might have provoked those threats (according to him) but that's a matter for the courts to decide. Before allowing the guy to drive off, they should have asked if you wanted to file a complaint. I would have. I can guarantee you're not the first person he's pulled that shit with or threatened for no reason. It's loses its charm pretty quick.

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