Maine/PA No Longer Honor Each Other

[ungawa]

Can't get thar, from here-ah.

[knight0334]

What some of you aren't realizing is - Maine no longer honors any other state's license. So, any standing reciprocity based upon honoring a license has to be null and void. I will repeat that... Maine stopped honoring PA licenses because Maine no longer requires a license to carry concealed.

Maine went Constitutional Carry.. Your license is no longer valid in Maine because of Maine's law. ....because you dont need a damn license.

So, Kane properly and justly cancelled a reciprocity agreement that was completely one sided, based upon HONORING A REQUIRED LICENSE.

The proper thing for Kane to do now is to give Statutory Reciprocity since PA residents can carry in Maine without a license.

[eyecanshoot]

What some of you aren't realizing is - Maine no longer honors any other state's license. So, any standing reciprocity based upon honoring a license has to be null and void. I will repeat that... Maine stopped honoring PA licenses because Maine no longer requires a license to carry concealed.

Maine went Constitutional Carry.. Your license is no longer valid in Maine because of Maine's law. ....because you dont need a damn license.

So, Kane properly and justly cancelled a reciprocity agreement that was completely one sided, based upon HONORING A REQUIRED LICENSE.

The proper thing for Kane to do now is to give Statutory Reciprocity since PA residents can carry in Maine without a license.

I thought Maine now issues permits on a voluntary basis so their citizens can still carry in the States with reciprocity.

[tl_3237]

What some of you aren't realizing is - Maine no longer honors any other state's license. So, any standing reciprocity based upon honoring a license has to be null and void. I will repeat that... Maine stopped honoring PA licenses because Maine no longer requires a license to carry concealed.

Maine went Constitutional Carry.. Your license is no longer valid in Maine because of Maine's law. ....because you dont need a damn license.

So, Kane properly and justly cancelled a reciprocity agreement that was completely one sided, based upon HONORING A REQUIRED LICENSE.

The proper thing for Kane to do now is to give Statutory Reciprocity since PA residents can carry in Maine without a license.

I thought Maine now issues permits on a voluntary basis so their citizens can still carry in the States with reciprocity.

The whole Maine change is an interesting kettle of fish.

As previous linked in post #11 , the actual change in law did not repeal the Maine CCW issuance system (25 MRSA §2003) nor did it repeal the existing reciprocity exception to the CC

F. A handgun carried by a person to whom a valid permit to carry a concealed
handgun has been issued by that person's state of residence if that person's state of
residence honors a permit to carry a concealed handgun issued under this chapter;

The ONLY thing it did with respect to CC was add an ADDITIONAL exception, namely:

A-1. A handgun carried by a person who is not otherwise prohibited from carrying a firearm;

The net result is that barring other intervening laws, one can carry in Maine sans licensure but does not preclude carrying with Maine licensure - the old exception remains:

25 MRSA §2001-A.2.A. A handgun carried by a person to whom a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun has been issued as provided in this chapter;

That does not mean, however, that they eviscerated their reciprocity agreement with other states nor that they would not technically provide reciprocity to CCWs from those other states concordant with any specific reciprocity agreement terms.

As such Maine's Constitutional carry is not a change to the current CCW issuance system and should not have affected the PA<> ME reciprocity agreement - obviously the PAAG does not agree.

[abner13]

There were some rumored to be involving her. One of which was leaked to the press.

Works for me!

[knight0334]

I thought Maine now issues permits on a voluntary basis so their citizens can still carry in the States with reciprocity.

Correct, but statutorily Maine no longer honors licenses because carrying concealed is no longer a regulated privilege that requires a license. So a reciprocal agreement based upon honoring licenses is de facto invalidated because of Maine.

Maine, doing like Alaska did <15 years ago, kept their licensing process in place - but the fact of the matter is, Maine like Alaska, Vermont, and a couple other states with Constitutional Carry, do not honor licenses because no license is required. It is a vicious cycle because the entire pretense of a reciprocal agreement is mutual honoring of licenses. You cannot have a mutual honoring of a license if one state no longer honors licenses because they are no longer required.

By legal structure and workings of contracts/pacts - the existing reciprocal agreement is invalid.

PA however should extend "Statutory Reciprocity" to Maine because PA residents can still carry in Maine. It is just that a license to carry is no longer a factor in things(the basis for the formal reciprocity agreement).

[jthrelf]

Correct, but statutorily Maine no longer honors licenses because carrying concealed is no longer a regulated privilege that requires a license. So a reciprocal agreement based upon honoring licenses is de facto invalidated because of Maine.

Maine, doing like Alaska did <15 years ago, kept their licensing process in place - but the fact of the matter is, Maine like Alaska, Vermont, and a couple other states with Constitutional Carry, do not honor licenses because no license is required. It is a vicious cycle because the entire pretense of a reciprocal agreement is mutual honoring of licenses. You cannot have a mutual honoring of a license if one state no longer honors licenses because they are no longer required.

By legal structure and workings of contracts/pacts - the existing reciprocal agreement is invalid.

PA however should extend "Statutory Reciprocity" to Maine because PA residents can still carry in Maine. It is just that a license to carry is no longer a factor in things(the basis for the formal reciprocity agreement).

However, according to Gary's website (www.handgunlaw.us) you still need a Maine or reciprocal license to carry in Acadia National Park or any of the state parks. That's a big fail for PA tourists going to visit Maine.

[tl_3237]

However, according to Gary's website (www.handgunlaw.us) you still need a Maine or reciprocal license to carry in Acadia National Park or any of the state parks. That's a big fail for PA tourists going to visit Maine.

Basically correct:

12 MRSA §756. Acadia National Park


1. Definitions. As used in this section, unless the context otherwise indicates, the following terms have the following meanings.


A. "Firearm" has the same meaning as in section 10001, subsection 21. [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


B. "Residential dwelling" means a fixed housing structure that either is the principal residence of its occupants or is occupied on a regular and recurring basis by its occupants as an alternate residence or vacation home. [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]

[ 2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW) .]


2. Possession of firearms. A person may not use or possess a firearm in Acadia National Park except:


A. Within a residential dwelling; [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


B. To the extent the firearm is used in connection with hunting when and where authorized by state or federal law; [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


C. Within a mechanical mode of conveyance as long as the firearm is rendered temporarily inoperable or is packed, cased or stored in a manner that prevents its ready use; [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


D. When the firearm is carried by an authorized federal, state or local law enforcement officer in the performance of the officer's official duties; [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


E. When the firearm is a concealed firearm carried by a qualified law enforcement officer pursuant to 18 United States Code, Section 926B. The law enforcement officer must have in the law enforcement officer's possession photographic identification issued by the law enforcement agency by which the person is employed as a law enforcement officer; [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


F. When the firearm is a concealed firearm carried by a qualified retired law enforcement officer pursuant to 18 United States Code, Section 926C. The retired law enforcement officer must have in the retired law enforcement officer's possession:

(1) Photographic identification issued by the law enforcement agency from which the person retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the person has, not less recently than one year before the date the person is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or



(2) Photographic identification issued by the law enforcement agency from which the person retired from service as a law enforcement officer and a certification issued by the state in which the person resides that indicates that the person has, not less recently than one year before the date the person is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the state to meet the standards established by the state for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]

G. When the firearm is a concealed firearm carried by a person to whom a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued as provided in Title 25, chapter 252. The person must have in that person's possession the permit as required in Title 25, section 2003. [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]

[ 2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW) .]


3. Violation. The following penalties apply to violations of this section.


A. A person who, in violation of subsection 2, possesses or uses a firearm that is not concealed commits a Class E crime, which is a strict liability crime as defined in Title 17-A, section 34, subsection 4-A. [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


B. A person who, in violation of subsection 2, possesses or uses a concealed firearm commits a Class D crime, which is a strict liability crime as defined in Title 17-A, section 34, subsection 4-A. [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]


C. A person who is authorized to use or possess a firearm under subsection 2, paragraphs E to G who does not have the required identification or permit in that person's possession at all times when possessing or using the firearm commits a civil violation for which a fine of not more than $100 may be adjudged. [2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).]

[ 2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW) .]

SECTION HISTORY
2009, c. 607, §1 (NEW).

[Gary Slider]

When Maine went permitless carry they also changed their how they honor other states with S.P. 313 - L.D. 868. Their old law required a signed agreement. There new reciprocity law states:

25 MRSA §2001-A, sub-§2,
F. A handgun carried by a person to whom a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun has been issued by
that person's state of residence if that person's state of residence honors a permit to carry a concealed
handgun issued under this chapter;

So if your state honors Maine then Maine will honor your permit/license. They did have 8 signed agreements. Every agreement I have read and I have read many almost exclusively state:
If there are changes in your laws that could affect this agreement you will notify the other state or a similar wording. The Handgun Unit in Maine told me awhile back they were not even sure if the
agreements they had would be valid when the new law takes effect as there is no longer reciprocity in their laws they just honor those who honor them. Maine is not posting a list of states that honor them just posting their new law saying it is up to Maine residents to check with the other states to see if their Maine Permit is valid in another state.

All the other states that went permitless carry changed their law on how they honor other states to just honor them all. I gave Maine a list of states that honored them. Gave them links and contact info for
all those states. I thought they would post a list of states they would honor. Nothing so far and I doubt now they will post a list.

[press1280]

What some of you aren't realizing is - Maine no longer honors any other state's license. So, any standing reciprocity based upon honoring a license has to be null and void. I will repeat that... Maine stopped honoring PA licenses because Maine no longer requires a license to carry concealed.

Maine went Constitutional Carry.. Your license is no longer valid in Maine because of Maine's law. ....because you dont need a damn license.

So, Kane properly and justly cancelled a reciprocity agreement that was completely one sided, based upon HONORING A REQUIRED LICENSE.

The proper thing for Kane to do now is to give Statutory Reciprocity since PA residents can carry in Maine without a license.

This is not technically correct as I see it, however there's only a small difference between that and no license(or non-recognized license). The recognized licenses allow for carry in the National Park as well as no notification of LEO required.
I do agree she should change the agreement/honoring of ME based on PA's wacky scheme, because this action is actually screwing over PA residents(albeit in a small way) unlike the other agreements (UT,AZ,VA,FL) which screwed over only non-residents.
ME may want to consider a clean up reciprocity bill next session to allow for agreements to be signed where the other states require it, and probably recognize all other permits unilaterally.