U.S.A L.T.C.F

[coppery]

Hey all, I just wanted to toy around with the idea of drafting up what a national LTCF would be like. What it would take to get one, what it covers, costs etc.

This is a "preaching to the quire" type thread, but if it ever does get serious to where we can get enough votes in the house and the senate this is what we could possibly hope for.

If you have any ideas to add or change list them, but obviously serious changes. I get we like to joke around but this would be a way for all of us to put our minds together as to what would work in the National spectrum.

So to start off...

Part 1: What it covers.

It would be called in some way the United States of America License to Carry Firearms, or License to Carry Weapons. Something along those lines. The License would cover ALL Firearms, handguns, long guns, NFA items, black powder, whatever that goes bang that is defined or will be defined as a firearm. To get right down to it it would be PA's version but on a national level. Now here is the difference. The card would also cover any edged weapons(any knife, any axe, andy tomahawk etc), kinetic weapons(clubs, batons, blackjacks nun-chucks etc) chemical(paper spray, mace, etc) and electric weapons(tasers, stun gun etc). Obviously state laws regarding the carry or use of said items would still apply The card covers what you can carry, what it can cover contingent upon what the state allow that you may carry. Also no limits to the number of items or registration of items to the card.

This would all be new law so the relevant penal code would be on the back of the card. Conceal or Open will not exist anywhere on the card.

Part two: Obtaining the Card.

$20 and the same background check to buying a firearm. If you can get a gun legal you ought to be able to carry one legally as well. The argument against added checks would be that nefarious individuals won't bother going through the legal channels to carry in the first place.

To get one you would also have to undergo a 2 hour course explaining state law regarding the lawful use of self defense, and the practical which would be live fire. Classes are held seven days a week 9am-9pm either by paid or volunteer instructors following a curriculum which will be the same nation wide except for the relevant state laws. Instructors would be mixed between NRA certified outside the home instructors, police firearms instructors, and military firearms instructors. The class will include ammo if the student has non to spare, and firearms if for whatever reason the student yet does not have one. Class will be free of charge including gun and/or ammunition. Donations would be nice, class may also be paid though some sort of tax, or maintaining a new budget by congress. The class part is there just to appease the anti carry people. You know it won't work unless we make some compromise. Additionally the law would read that no additional requirements may be added after the law is enacted.

Part 3: The Class.

How would the class be structured? We obviously don't want people to not be able to obtain this card. Well first off, LEO, MIL, and individuals who already have obtained a State issued carry permit from the state in which they reside will not have to undergo the class. Additionally, if an individual has an out of state card they only have to attend the law aspect. Same goes if the individual has a State resident permit but no longer resides in the state where the permit was originally issued. This exemption only applies if the Permits are not expired.

Still do not know where the classes would be held, or the instructor/student ratio. Biggest thing here that I want to stress is that the classroom, the range, and the issuing area would all be in the same facility. If it is a portable system then the individual instructors can also be state certified to issue the Cards on their own time just like when an FFL goes to a gun show, except the instructor would have a card printer, card scanner to activate the issued card number(?), and would need computer and internet connection to be able to run the background check and issue the card.

Once completion of the class, payment and background check the card will be issued as a Drivers License style card including photo name and address along with the crds number, like a DL number. No waiting periods. Period.

Top of the card will say the title of what it is and below it the name of the state of where it was issued. The front will include a photo, address, DOB, and issue/exp dates. The back of the card will include what the card covers as listed in Part 1, and that this is a card intended for the lawful carry of ANY purpose to be honored in all states counties, municipalities and cities.

That is what i can come up with at the moment. Who would ultimately run the program. The states? The FBI?

Any changes or additions?



Thoughts and comments?




Edit one: Well I am really happy to see that everyone still has the fire in them. I got the same but Ive been in CA for too long. Yes constitutional carry or forced reciprocity would be the better idea. What I suggested had everything to do with both sides working together to get what we want in a way that would make the leftists happy to a certain extent. Unless the feds can force states not to make the shall issue process complicated, then this method would fix the issue that in a lot of states, getting a carry permit costs a lot of time and money. I can't get one in CA not because they don't want me to(actually thats true atleast in los angeles) but because the damn thing would cost me around 300 bucks by the time I'm done, and over a years wait.

I like the fire, and the comments, keep them coming.


Edit two: Alright, perfect, so obviously what we do want is to force reciprocity, and not force people to jump through hoops. Pay your 20 bucks, fill out the paper leave with your LTCF in 10 min. Just like always. So we need ways to convince this does work, is not a danger, and show numbers that forcing to take classes would not benefit anyone. We already know that people serious about defending themselves with a gun WILL seek out training on their own time.

I need to get back to PA. The air down here is messing with my logic(and spelling) centers.

[knight0334]

No.

Classes are bullshit, pure and simple.

The federal government has no lawful authority to issue such licenses, however it can force the states to honor the other respective state licenses via the 14th Amendment now that the 2A has been incorporated.

It is bad enough that we need a license, and licensing non-firearms is bull crap because in most jurisdictions in the USA no license is required for non-firearms.

This licensing thing is utterly complete bullshit. It enforces the idea that bearing arms is a privilege and not a right. Rights do not require licenses.

The only proper ways to amend the current situation:

1. SCOTUS ruling that carrying in one form is a right and doesn't requires a license - although odds are they would allow the states to determine that manner(either openly or concealed).
2. State level - Force each individual state to go constitutional carry, or at minimum, Shall Issue, and force reciprocity.
3. Federal level - Force the states to honor the other states licenses.

[ungawa]

You are going to get a lot of flack over this. I appreciate your creativity and also what you are trying to do, but you are not going to find many people that want the federal government involved in licensing carry of firearms or anything else with respect to firearms. It's a horrendously terrible idea. Sorry.

[Remington788]

This could get interesting.
Why use PA as the the model? Why not NJ or DC laws, or AZ or VT?
A few too many variables, far too little support would be generated in Congress (which could not even agree to stop the Iran deal), even less at the white house.

[Gunsnwater]

King of the bad ideas. The second amendment already recognizes the right of the people to own and carry arms unfettered. You see what the foes of liberty have done with that.

[WoollyPullover]

how about constitutional carry in every state?

[bluetrane2028]

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

Seems to me it already says I can own and carry guns. All hoops to jump through are unnecessary and should never have been put in place in the first place.

[buckengr]

In a word, NO!

As pretty much everyone else here has suggested already, involving the Federal government in licensing any right is a travesty and a phenomenally bad idea. The second amendment already provides all of the "license" that should be required at the Federal level.

I agree with Knight; there are a few good ways to improve the current situation, but this isn't one of them. Sorry to disappoint.

[pacodelahoya]

how about constitutional carry in every state?

Ding ding ding...and we have a winner.

[jthrelf]

Most people would rather see national reciprocity to start. Any license/permit issued by a govt authority is recognized by any other govt authority in the U.S. The only issue with this is the people in anti states like NJ, MD, NY etc. however those state governments could be compelled to a shall issue system.