PSP Illegally checking FFL records?

[PAMedic=F|A=]

http://blog.princelaw.com/2015/09/11...t-inspections/

ALERT – PA FFLs, PSP Has No Authority To Conduct Inspections
It has recently come to my attention that the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) is conducting compliance inspections of PA Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) without warrants. Unlike the federal law provision found in 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(B)(ii) that provides ATF with the authority to conduct a compliance inspection once every 12 months without a warrant, no similar provision exists in Pennsylvania law. Further, unlike with a Federal Firearms License, where the ATF issues the FFL, in Pennsylvania, it is the county sheriff that issues the Pennsylvania firearms sales license, not the PSP.

Accordingly, the PSP has no authority or jurisdiction, absent a lawfully executed warrant or your consent, to inspect your records or premise. If the PSP comes to your store and demands to review your records, you should immediately inform them that you do not consent to a search of your premise or records and request that they produce a warrant. You should also immediately contact an attorney for representation and anticipate ATF to conduct a compliance inspection in the near future.

If you or a FFL you know is approached by the PSP, you should immediately contact us so that we can ensure your rights are protected. Remember, Rule 1 is never speak with the police and Rule 2 is never consent to a search, even if you believe your records to have been maintained in strict compliance

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Thoughts? True?

[ExFlyinguy]

http://blog.princelaw.com/2015/09/11...t-inspections/

ALERT – PA FFLs, PSP Has No Authority To Conduct Inspections
It has recently come to my attention that the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) is conducting compliance inspections of PA Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) without warrants. Unlike the federal law provision found in 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(B)(ii) that provides ATF with the authority to conduct a compliance inspection once every 12 months without a warrant, no similar provision exists in Pennsylvania law. Further, unlike with a Federal Firearms License, where the ATF issues the FFL, in Pennsylvania, it is the county sheriff that issues the Pennsylvania firearms sales license, not the PSP.
Accordingly, the PSP has no authority or jurisdiction, absent a lawfully executed warrant or your consent, to inspect your records or premise. If the PSP comes to your store and demands to review your records, you should immediately inform them that you do not consent to a search of your premise or records and request that they produce a warrant. You should also immediately contact an attorney for representation and anticipate ATF to conduct a compliance inspection in the near future.

If you or a FFL you know is approached by the PSP, you should immediately contact us so that we can ensure your rights are protected. Remember, Rule 1 is never speak with the police and Rule 2 is never consent to a search, even if you believe your records to have been maintained in strict compliance

***

Thoughts? True?

The part that I put in bold- well that's news to me? Is that true? I wasn't aware that there is a PA Firearms sales license. I'm really skeptical. ETA:

Thanks to PAFOA I've been educated a bit more. No longer skeptical. It says right in the licensing agreement that the applicant consents to inspection by PSP. See my response below.

[abner13]

The part that I put in bold- well that's news to me? Is that true? I wasn't aware that there is a PA Firearms sales license. I'm really skeptical.

Yes , there is a Pennsylvania License to Sell Firearms , issued by the county. $30

Depending on who you ask , it is either issued to the shop/owner/FFL holder , or every sales person in the store.

http://www.montcopa.org/index.aspx?nid=412 (bottom of page)

[ExFlyinguy]

Yes , there is a Pennsylvania License to Sell Firearms , issued by the county. $30

Depending on who you ask , it is either issued to the shop/owner/FFL holder , or every sales person in the store.

http://www.montcopa.org/index.aspx?nid=412 (bottom of page)

Thanks Abner.......DAMMIT!


ETA: Found this:

"By signing the application for a license to sell firearms, the applicant is acknowledging that if a license is granted, the applicant gives permission to PSP, or their designee, and the issuing authority, to visit the licensee’s business location and inspect the premises, records, and documents without a warrant" Link: http://smartgunlaws.org/dealer-regul...-pennsylvania/

[abner13]

Most if not all businesses need some form of license from the county.

C&R licensees of course do not. I did read about one idiot who tried to get a retail license with a C&R. Claimed he was only gonna sell C&R guns. Guess he didn't read his license where it says;

THIS LICENSE DOES NOT AUTHORIZE THE HOLDER TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF DEALING IN ANY FIREARMS.

[Rosco the Iroc]

Of course it's more here in Monroe-
•Fee of $57 - CASH ONLY

[Deleted]

§ 6113. Licensing of dealers.
(a) General rule.--The chief or head of any police force or police department of a city, and, elsewhere, the sheriff of the county, shall grant to reputable applicants licenses, in form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police, effective for three years from date of issue, permitting the licensee to sell firearms direct to the consumer, subject to the following conditions in addition to those specified in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), for breach of any of which the license shall be forfeited and the licensee subject to punishment as provided in this subchapter:
(1) The business shall be carried on only upon the premises designated in the license or at a lawful gun show or meet.
(2) The license, or a copy thereof, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the premises where it can easily be read.


Don't need a warrant to view something that is posted in a place open to the public.

[abner13]

§ 6113. Licensing of dealers.
(a) General rule.--The chief or head of any police force or police department of a city, and, elsewhere, the sheriff of the county, shall grant to reputable applicants licenses, in form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police, effective for three years from date of issue, permitting the licensee to sell firearms direct to the consumer, subject to the following conditions in addition to those specified in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), for breach of any of which the license shall be forfeited and the licensee subject to punishment as provided in this subchapter:
(1) The business shall be carried on only upon the premises designated in the license or at a lawful gun show or meet.
(2) The license, or a copy thereof, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the premises where it can easily be read.


Don't need a warrant to view something that is posted in a place open to the public.

And I'm sure lawyers can argue that those words give the PASP free range to do whatever the fuck they want!

"Let us look thru your records for compliance , or we suspend your Insta-Chek privileges!"

No Insta-Chek , no sales.

[Sgt.K]

ETA: Re-read the OP, so strike this I'm gonna go out on a limb here before I completely trash Mr. Prince.

Correct me if I'm wrong (like that *ever* needs to be said here), but not every FFL is going to *sell* firearms - some are just going to facilitate transfers. Is the PA sales license needed for that? If not, an FFL holder without said sales license *should* be protected from PSP search, no?

It sounds like one of our in-house firearm attorneys may have just stepped on his d!@#...

[ExFlyinguy]

ETA: Re-read the OP, so strike this I'm gonna go out on a limb here before I completely trash Mr. Prince.

Correct me if I'm wrong (like that *ever* needs to be said here), but not every FFL is going to *sell* firearms - some are just going to facilitate transfers. Is the PA sales license needed for that? If not, an FFL holder without said sales license *should* be protected from PSP search, no?

It sounds like one of our in-house firearm attorneys may have just stepped on his d!@#...

I believe the Sales License is required as Abner indicated above. Title 18 Section 6112 Covers it: Link:http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...1.012.000..HTM

§ 6112. Retail dealer required to be licensed.
No retail dealer shall sell, or otherwise transfer or expose
for sale or transfer, or have in his possession with intent to
sell or transfer, any firearm as defined in section 6113(d)
(relating to licensing of dealers) without being licensed as
provided in this chapter.

To your point- Every state application I have found (Just as it stipulates on the ATF form 7 application) the applicant agrees to comply with inspection by PSP. Don't know how exactly a PA Dealer can refuse to grant a compliance inspection (having signed the application) and still keep their license?