16" free float handguard..... Dumb idea?

**1096369fred** · September 3rd, 2015, 11:09 AM

Hey Guys,

I just had one of my wild hair ideas..... So bare with me!

What I have:

AR15 "pistol" in 9mm, with a 5" barrel, and "sig brace", and (I think?) a Yankee hill 6" quad rail. In which I use my Bowers CAC9 supressor.

My Bad Idea:

Mount a 16" free float shroud, that will accept my CAC9 suppressor (1.75" x 11.25"), meeting the ATF's 16" overall length
And not having to go through the SBR hassle, (I already have three!), that would allow me to use a standard telescoping stock.

Question: does anyone make a 16" free float rail, or will I have to weld something up?

The barrel extension in an AR15 Is not counted for overall barrel length, correct? In other words.... Barrel length is measured from locked bolt face to muzzle, right?

Here is sorta what I have in mind.... It is 15" so won't cut it.... Dammit! But pretty close!

http://www.amazon.com/RifleSupply®-F...loat+handguard

This one looks great too.... Light weight! But also 15"!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Hera-Arms-Rail...4FBDPJ8EZZCC5M

What do ya think.... Bad idea, I don't want to upset our ATF cousins.... But think it should be cricket.....kinda like tactical solutions 10/22 barrel that has the "cage" on the end, to allow the use of your suppressor and maintain a 16" AOL!

http://www.tacticalsol.com/sb-x-barr...the-ruger-7722

Thanks!
Fred

**theunrulychef** · September 3rd, 2015, 12:06 PM

The free float tube has nothing to do with the barrel length. If you permanently attach your suppressor to your barrel with a welded pin (bad idea), AND it's over 16" in length, then you could use a stock. If you have a 5" barrel with your suppressor and a 100" free float tube, you still have a SBR or pistol.

Since you already have 3 SBRs, the easiest/smartest/most convenient thing to do would be put this upper on one of your SBR lowers when you want to shoot it. Just keep the original parts that the SBR was created with so you can always put it back into it's original configuration (alternately, you can fill out a form to alter your SBR & send it to the ATF).

**1096369fred** · September 3rd, 2015, 12:28 PM

Hey unrulychef,

So to be legal the handguard would have to be welded or blind pinned to the short barrel and over 16" in length, to get the ATF's blessing???
(Not arguing the facts!!!), but that is dumb.... If the whole point of a mandatory 16" barrel, (which is also stupid!)
Was to prohibite a "readily concealed firearms" (you know.... Like a.... Let me think, handgun!), why would one with a 16" "front end" Not make them happy..... Particularly when anyone with a wrench can install a short one....

Sigh.... I know I am preaching to the choir...... But this NFA stuff is capricious and dim witted!

Yeah.... I guess it really is easier and cheaper, to just have done with it and SBR it... (Since I already have a trust!)
I don't have a AR that is SBR'd anyway.....(can you reg. it in multiple calibers..... 5.56, 9mm, 300 B/O?), or is it one and done?

Guess it is time my Thompson, Krink, and MP-5 got a buddy!

Thanks !
Fred

**theunrulychef** · September 3rd, 2015, 12:33 PM

Ooh, nice collection! Is that MP-5 auto?

Yeah, just suck it up & SBR an AR lower. You would build it as one setup - I don't think they let you slide with "multi" calibers anymore. But, the good thing is, since ARs are like legos & the ATF accepts that fact, it's allowed for you to swap uppers all day long - bouncing back & forth to rifle length, as long as you can put it back in the original configuration. If you decided to get rid of the original upper, you can do that, but you're supposed to send in a form to the ATF to let them know what the new specs are.

**theunrulychef** · September 3rd, 2015, 12:35 PM

And about the handguard - yes, it would have to be a permanent modification as far as I am aware, since they specify the "barrel" has to be 16"+. The handguard would really only count toward it's overall length unless it was permanently attached to the barrel somehow.

**1096369fred** · September 3rd, 2015, 12:43 PM

Just read GunLawyers answer about multi caliber..... It sounds like ATF requires a single caliber on the Form 1, but doesnt get their panties in a twist about the use of other caliber uppers.... So long as not a permanent mod!

I wish the MP5 was F/A..... Sigh..... Perhaps one day we will be free of this wretched and illegal Hugh's amendment!

Thanks!!!!
Fred

**Xringshooter** · September 3rd, 2015, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by 1096369fred

Hey unrulychef,

So to be legal the handguard would have to be welded or blind pinned to the short barrel and over 16" in length, to get the ATF's blessing???
(Not arguing the facts!!!), but that is dumb.... If the whole point of a mandatory 16" barrel, (which is also stupid!)
Was to prohibite a "readily concealed firearms" (you know.... Like a.... Let me think, handgun!), why would one with a 16" "front end" Not make them happy..... Particularly when anyone with a wrench can install a short one....

Sigh.... I know I am preaching to the choir...... But this NFA stuff is capricious and dim witted!

Yeah.... I guess it really is easier and cheaper, to just have done with it and SBR it... (Since I already have a trust!)
I don't have a AR that is SBR'd anyway.....(can you reg. it in multiple calibers..... 5.56, 9mm, 300 B/O?), or is it one and done?

Guess it is time my Thompson, Krink, and MP-5 got a buddy!

Thanks !
Fred

Fred,
You're getting the handguard and the barrel mixed up. If you PERMANENTLY affix a 11" suppressor to the 5" barrel, then you have met the ATF requirements (don't forget to take into account how far the suppressor goes on to the barrel). In this case, from the front of the suppressor to the bolt face has to measure 16" or greater. You don't even have to have a handguard mounted (might get too hot to handle though). The BARREL measurement is what makes it a SBR, NOT the handguard. You can put a 6" handguard on a 16" barrel and it is legal. You CANNOT put a 16" handguard over a 6" barrel and be legal, that would still be an SBR. Barrel measurement is from the front of the barrel, NOT the front of the handguard.

I have seen people with SBR's that have handguards that go the whole way to the front of the suppressor they mounted. Makes it kinda hard to easily remove the suppressor, but hey, it's their gun.

**1096369fred** · September 4th, 2015, 02:44 PM

Hey Guys,

That is my idea.... Perminately Attaching the handguard to the barrel so that the AOL is the 16" not sure if it would fly with
ATF.... Would have to call tech branch, for a ruling.... It Is the same concept as the Tactical Solution SBX 10/22 barrel....
But who knows if they with think it is cricket!!!

Like this:

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/SBX04

**theunrulychef** · September 4th, 2015, 03:14 PM

It would be so much easier to just sbr an AR lower.

**1096369fred** · October 6th, 2015, 04:48 PM

Looks like these folks get my idea..... Just found them!

http://www.midstatefirearms.com/BMS-...l-16-bms30.htm

It is a shame it is such a pricy upper.... As a result It is cheaper to SBR a $300 upper and go from there.... Still it would be useful
In states that do not allow SBR's!