Stopped and Questioned while Open Carrying, in Catasauqua, PA

[General Geoff]

So my friend Steve and I drove up to Catty today to visit my friend Ed (same two folks who I was with at the hospital incident a month or so ago). We stopped by Pie's On Pizza (Pop's for short), to order some food. After ordering, I walked over to the Wachovia bank which is a short distance from there. It is also adjacent to the Catasauqua Police Department. After withdrawing some cash from the ATM, I was walking back to the pizza shop when a police cruiser pulled into the Wachovia parking lot, and the driver motioned for me to come over to him with the window down. This happened at around 4:15pm.

So I walked over and asked what's up. He said that he saw that I was carrying a gun, and I replied in the affirmative. He asked if I had a license to carry, and I replied with "Yes, although I don't need it to openly carry a firearm." He then asked for ID and to "please keep your hands away from the gun." I know that I'm not legally required to give him identification, but I didn't want to risk being cuffed and waste my evening at the police station, so I provided him with my driver's license. He examined it and then asked for my LTCF. I reluctantly provided that as well, at which point he examined it and then passed it to another officer who had arrived by that time. After looking closely at the card for a few moments, the other officer said "it's real," and handed it back to me. The other officer, after writing down my information on a notepad, then handed me my DL back. He then asked me what I was doing in Catty, where I was going, etc..

The first officer (Last name LaKitt, I didn't have the forethought to ask for credentials) then said that he had received a "Man with a gun" call, and that he wanted me to "please store the firearm somewhere not on your person while you're in Catasauqua." I replied that I was just going back to the pizza shop to pick up my food, then going on to my friend's house, which is a few blocks away. He replied that he didn't like getting "man with a gun" calls and that I should do as he asked. At this point my friend Steve (who sticks out a bit because he wears a full suit with tie and hat) was standing across the street, patiently waiting, when Officer LaKitt yelled and asked him if he was carrying too. After nodding in the affirmative, the second officer walked over to him and asked to see the weapon, and his LTCF.

At this point Officer LaKitt said that he didn't feel that I should be carrying a gun, because "this isn't the Wild West," as he put it. He then said "So you're not going to do as I asked," to which I replied that this was the first time I'd been stopped for it, and didn't see what the big deal was. After that, he told me to have a nice day, and I walked over to the other side of the street and waited for the officer to finish with Steve. After handing Steve back his license, Officer LaKitt asked for both of our phone numbers. I obliged and gave him my cell phone number, and Steve did the same. We then went back to the pizza shop, picked up our food, and went on to Ed's house without incident. The whole encounter lasted maybe ten minutes.

I'm not sure why they took our information down (including our phones), but Steve said that while I was talking to Officer LaKitt, the other officer stated that we "were wearing black" and that we stood out. Steve, as I mentioned, was wearing a black suit, white shirt, and tie. We were both wearing fedoras. I had black slacks and a dark red button down shirt on, tucked in, with a hip holster carrying my SW99.

I guess I'll find out within the next few days or so if they try to revoke my carry license or anything, but neither officer made mention of anything of the sort. They probably just took down all our information so they can charge us with the nonexistent law that we broke, which they'll scour for but won't find. I did note that at no point did Officer LaKitt say what I was doing was illegal, so kudos for not jumping to conclusions. Before we parted ways I said "Thanks for taking the time to talk to us."

I know that I should not have yielded to the demand for ID, but it's very, very hard not to comply with officers who are acting under the colour of law. Anything else I should have done differently? Questions, comments and constructive criticism are all welcome.

[Pa. Patriot]

... Anything else I should have done differently? Questions, comments and constructive criticism are all welcome.

Short on time, more later.

IMO ...partial list of "criticisms":
1) You should not yield to illegal demands.
2) You should not talk to the police --Especially answering questions! Correct answer: "I'm sorry, I can not answer any questions without my attorney present"
3) You should have asked if you were free to leave.
4) You should have gotten their cards or name&badge #'s
5) You should consider buying a voice recorder and keeping it on you while OC.

If you choose to show ID at least follow the rest

[General Geoff]

Next time I'll be more likely to be more passive and not yielding to such questions and demands. Every negative encounter seems to give me more confidence, because they seem to be inevitably ending in "Have a nice day."

[fingers80002]

Short on time, more later.

IMO ...partial list of "criticisms":
1) You should not yield to illegal demands.
2) You should not talk to the police --Especially answering questions! Correct answer: "I'm sorry, I can not answer any questions without my attorney present"
3) You should have asked if you were free to leave.
4) You should have gotten their cards or name&badge #'s
5) You should consider buying a voice recorder and keeping it on you while OC.

If you choose to show ID at least follow the rest

WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't doubt the Godfather!!!!!

[pahandgunner]

I'm sure many here will find flaws with the way you handled the encounter. We were not there. There is something to be said for the non confrontational/fairly cooperative approach you took. The officers wern't being di_ks and I'm sure they knew the laws better after meeting you. Good for you.

[mjf]

I think you were fine... I agree with Pa. Patriot, but I also understand that being stopped for the first time can be intense, especially if they place you in cuffs. I have yet to be stopped by police for OCing, but I remember the first time I was detained on foot, for walking down a street at 2am after returning my then girlfriend home after a party, my heart was pumping, I was scared, and I provided them with my whole wallet to look through... I also answered an array of unnecessary questions... The good news is that the second time I was detained for being out late, I was way less nervous, and actually took a stand for my rights. Use it as a learning experience.

Just remember, you're more likely to be arrested and have your rights violated if you actually give into all of their demands.

[Pa. Patriot]

I'm sure many here will find flaws with the way you handled the encounter. We were not there. There is something to be said for the non confrontational/fairly cooperative approach you took. .

Seriously good point... But...

....
Just remember, you're more likely to be arrested and have your rights violated if you actually give into all of their demands.

Another good point.

The line is thin and sometimes hard to detect.

Knowing where to "shut it off" (compliance) is key to LEO encounters.
Be the good guy, because you are, but don't be the naive guy and get your ass taken advantage of either.

[pahandgunner]

Knowing where to "shut it off" (compliance) is key to LEO encounters.
Be the good guy, because you are, but don't be the naive guy and get your ass taken advantage of either.

Yes, and be very careful about what you say. If you are 100% legal and know you are saying nothing that can get you in any trouble........Think about it some more..... and try and keep your mouth shut as much as possible.

[pacrimescode5904]

One thing about what PA Patriot said in ref: to a voice recorder. I agree completely. Just ensure that you don't record on the sly. Pull out the recorder hold it in the open and announce on the "tape" that the conversation is being recorded. Unlike other states all party's need to be aware that a conversation is being recorded.

[JP8]

I don't think they took your information for any other reason but to notate who you are as a formality. Anytime they get a call...for anything...they like to get contact info in case something happens later.