Comparing two great magnum wheelguns, and a question

[American1776]

I like to carry 4 inch revolvers when I can (which is more often than not). My two favorite revolvers are the Ruger GP100 Match Champion and the Smith & Wesson model 58. In the Ruger I carry Underwood's .357 magnum 125 gr. JHP that does 1,600 ft/s from the 4 inch tube. In the S&W I carry Speer's .41 magnum 210 gr. Gold Dot, which does around 1,200 from a 4 inch. Here's my question: Is there really any practical difference in defensive capabilities between these two guns with my carry loads?

Ruger: 125 gr JHP @ 1,600 ft/s = 711 muzzle energy
S&W: 210 gr JHP @ 1,200 ft/s = ~725 muzzle energy

I don't mean to make this a Ruger vs S&W debate. And I don't want this to be a caliber war. My question comes down to: given these two specific loads, does any one of these have a distinct advantage over the other in terms of defensive abilities to stop a determined threat? I shoot both of these revolvers equally well. The .41 magnum revolver is only 3.5 ounces heavier than the .357 magnum. They are both excellent wheelguns.

I know the .41 magnum doesn't have a lot of 'street data' from LEO shootings, but the 125 gr. 357 mag DOES have a lot of evidence in its favor (Ayoob cites that the Indianapolis PD had its first 10 shootings with the 125 gr. JHP @ 1,450 ft/s, and had as many instant one shot stops from that load. The Kentucky State Troopers like its performance so much, they called it the 'magic bullet').

Even though the .41 has a larger cross sectional area, the .357 load from Underwood is an unprecedented factory velocity (1,600 ft/s!). Is this really a case of '6 of one and half dozen the other', or am I missing a distinct ballistic (and real world) advantage that one has over the other?

Thanks in advance.

[theunrulychef]

Do they both carry 6?

[American1776]

Do they both carry 6?

Both are full-sized service revolvers. 4 inch barrels, 6 shot cylinders. The GP100 has novak sights, the S&W M58 has fixed sights. They are roughly the same length. The S&W is 3.5 ounces heavier, and has a wider cylinder. The .357 magnum is a little faster in handling, but the .41 very well balanced.

[theunrulychef]

Personally, I'd go with the lighter / faster one, but I'm curious to see what more knowledgeable people have to say about the calibers. I'd think you're pretty even on the 2. Having 2 revolvers to choose from sounds like a good problem to have.

[Brick]

I've always been of the mind that the perfect defense or hunting bullet should go half-way through the target, reaching the vital organs and stop dead. That way all the kinetic energy is transferred to the body. So my personal prejudice would be for the .41 Mag.

[abner13]

Just got into this on another forum , but using a .44 mag.

Since they are so similar , we'll let it ride.

Most bullets made for the .41 and .44 are meant for hunting game tougher than the average human creep. In the old Marshall-Sanow reports , the .44 mag 240gr JSP/JHP simply went thru with little or no expansion , acting basically like hardball and having 1-shot torso hit stops in the low 80 percentage. On par with .45 ACP hardball. The 210gr .41 JSP/JHP should be no different. Collateral damage due to overpenetration is also a consideration. The Winchester 175gr Silvertip HP at 1200fps is a better alternative and is a proven stopper , but data in too small in actual numbers to count. It's also much more controllable in my Mod.58.

The .357 magnum 125gr JHP (Rem SJHP and Fed JHC) rated in the high 90s , (96-97%) one shot stops in hundreds of actual police and citizen SD shootings. It is the most effective 1 shot handgun fight stopper.

As much as I like my .41s , when I carry a revolver , I usually carry a 5-shot J-frame loaded with .38 Special 125gr+P or Glaser Safety Slug. Conceals better too.

[pennlineman]

The .357 with 125 JHP's was king of the hill for a long time. Probably still would be if everyone hadn't gone to bottom feeders. Either would obviously work but I'd stick with the .357 for it's proven track record. If I went big bore I'd probably go .45 ACP on moon clips.

[American1776]

Just got into this on another forum , but using a .44 mag.

Since they are so similar , we'll let it ride.

Most bullets made for the .41 and .44 are meant for hunting game tougher than the average human creep. In the old Marshall-Sanow reports , the .44 mag 240gr JSP/JHP simply went thru with little or no expansion , acting basically like hardball and having 1-shot torso hit stops in the low 80 percentage. On par with .45 ACP hardball. The 210gr .41 JSP/JHP should be no different. Collateral damage due to overpenetration is also a consideration. The Winchester 175gr Silvertip HP at 1200fps is a better alternative and is a proven stopper , but data in too small in actual numbers to count. It's also much more controllable in my Mod.58.

The .357 magnum 125gr JHP (Rem SJHP and Fed JHC) rated in the high 90s , (96-97%) one shot stops in hundreds of actual police and citizen SD shootings. It is the most effective 1 shot handgun fight stopper.

As much as I like my .41s , when I carry a revolver , I usually carry a 5-shot J-frame loaded with .38 Special 125gr+P or Glaser Safety Slug. Conceals better too.

Those are good points. I should look at the Win. Silvertips. From the ballistics you cite, it's still distinctly 'better' than the typical .40 S&W duty rounds, and it matches most 10mm defensive loads.

[American1776]

The .357 with 125 JHP's was king of the hill for a long time. Probably still would be if everyone hadn't gone to bottom feeders. Either would obviously work but I'd stick with the .357 for it's proven track record. If I went big bore I'd probably go .45 ACP on moon clips.

I seriously considered getting one of those S&W model 22-4 of 1950 in 45acp. Ideally with the case hardening. When I open carry it, I'd wear an Indiana Jones hat. (J/K).

I am always struck when I read the effectiveness of the old 125 gr. JHP in .357. It got the reputation of having a 'lightening bolt' effect on n'er-do-wells, and I've read that many PD's were upset when they had to give up their .357 revolvers for the wunder-nines.

[pennlineman]

I seriously considered getting one of those S&W model 22-4 of 1950 in 45acp. Ideally with the case hardening. When I open carry it, I'd wear an Indiana Jones hat. (J/K).

I am always struck when I read the effectiveness of the old 125 gr. JHP in .357. It got the reputation of having a 'lightening bolt' effect on n'er-do-wells, and I've read that many PD's were upset when they had to give up their .357 revolvers for the wunder-nines.

Probably the best bargain still out there are the old model 28's. They don't get the fanfare of the model 27 and I see plenty of nice ones out there. I picked up this minty 4" a few years ago for $450.

DSC005362_zps4ef0ec89.jpg