45-70 results

**cephas** · August 9th, 2015, 11:13 AM

I've seen some reports posted here and have enjoyed reading them so I thought I'd add one. The last few years I've been playing around with a 45-70 Handi rifle, scoped with a Burris 1.5x4.5, that has been dedicated to cast. My original intention was what could I do with a few hundred bucks for a bang around bad weather rifle. Price was to also include everything such as brass, mold and dies. Total just ran around $400 when said and done catching most of it on sale.
I decided I wanted to stay with loads in the trapdoor range.
Powders tried, cause it was what I had, have been Unique, 2400, 4198 and 5744. After much experimentation I've settled on 25.0 grs of 5744. The bullet is a Lee 405 gr holow base cast of half wheel weights and half lead sized to .459 using BAC lube. I'm using a 1 grain piece of dacron fluffed out as a filler between the powder and base of the bullet. Standard Winchester primers have been used throughout testing. Crimping was done with the Lee factory crimp die.
5744 has been interesting to work with. Heard someone say it's cleaner than black powder..barely. It does leave deposits in the barrel but that does not seem to affect performance at all.
Yesterday I had time to fire a few. 10 shots over the chrono averaged 1255 fps with a sd of 9.1
Some would try to lower the deviation but in some cases the results are what matters.
Had four shells left and pulled out the heavy sandbags for a 100 yd. target:

**Boondox** · August 9th, 2015, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by cephas

Yesterday I had time to fire a few. 10 shots over the chrono averaged 1255 fps with a sd of 9.1
Some would try to lower the deviation but in some cases the results are what matters.

I'd say anyone trying to lower that SD , if I am reading this correctly would have a giant amount of spare time and a lot of O.C.D.
The 45/70 NEF handi barrel is the one I never got that I wish I had.

**knight0334** · August 9th, 2015, 12:57 PM

Those are some pretty good results.

If you are ever in a position where you're out of handloads and need something to shoot - Winchester's Super-X 300gr JHP's give me ragged 1 holes at 50 yards, and clover leaves at 100 yards, standing, from my 22" Handi. Their so accurate in my Handi that I don't even bother trying to handload for it.

My 32" Buffalo Classic likes them, but not as much as my 22" Handi. I handload for both of by BC's, the .45-70 and my rechambered .45-120.

**Stooperzero** · August 9th, 2015, 01:06 PM

i never used dracon in 45-70's. What happens to it when you fire? burn right up or does it cling to the rifling and gets cleaned out the next shot?

**cephas** · August 9th, 2015, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Stooperzero

i never used dracon in 45-70's. What happens to it when you fire? burn right up or does it cling to the rifling and gets cleaned out the next shot?

In this application I've found no residue in the barrel or evidence of it laying on the ground.
Got most of my info about it from these folks:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers

**bamboomaster** · August 9th, 2015, 05:39 PM

Cephas, thanks for sharing your test results and shooting acumen! Knight, you too...

I am not new to reloading .45-70's and have loaded tens of thousands for my 1877 Gatling, mostly in 300 grn LRNFP w/11.7 Unique (no wads ever used for the Gatling rounds) on my Dillon 550B. Great for pumpkin busting, cutting telegraph poles in half, etc, but just wanted to think of how to use other powders safely for the .45-70.

To summarize the 405 testing I did in my 1895 Marlin, here's some of the data all at 50 yds. I wasn't looking for "THUMP" because I already have that for my 300g JHP hunting rounds which print a 3/4" group at 100 yds. I was just looking for recreational rounds that could be fun, accurate, and relatively inexpensive (depending on the powder) to shoot.

My 1895 Marlin (deer rifle) was mounted with a fixed Leupold 6x scope.

The 405's I reloaded were PC (poly-coated) rounds that were made by these folks: https://www.facebook.com/KingShootersSupply. Yep, the bullets are PURPLE! All were sized to.459”.

I discovered that the principal benefit of this coating was that there was ZERO leading throughout the three days of testing that occurred in May, 2015 in approximately 65 degree weather. I started each day with a cleaned rifle, but did no cleaning between tests that occurred on the same day.

No, I haven't fired these in a pistol, or one of my Trapdoors (they're too pristine to shoot), but if I have time later, I'll be sure to run them through my Pedersoli - which gets most of the long range work.

Brass was all new Starline (tumbled, chamfered and deburred), primers were large rifle Fed GM210M. The wad was a .06" vegetable/fiber wad. I’ve attached a picture of the implement I used to seat the vegetable/fiber wad on top of the powder.

I inspected all fired cases and didn’t notice any material “sooting” on the inspected cases – or any pressure signs on the expended primers.

For all you math majors, I know this probably isn't a statistically valid study, but it was enough to convince me what to reload in my general "plinking" rounds.

Unique: 15.0 grains + wad (Nice heavier load for Unique)
Best 4: .55"
All 5 : 1.11"
Velocity: 1206 fps
Energy: 1,388 ft lbs

Unique: 13.0 grains + wad
Best 4: 1.19"
All 5 : 1.48"
Velocity: 1122 fps
Energy: 1132 ft lbs

Unique: 11.00 grains + wad (Nice light load for Unique)
Best 4: .65"
All 5 : 1.00"
Velocity: 1003 fps
Energy: 905 ft lbs

N340: 12.0 grains + wad (Woah!!! See picture of target)
Best 4: .38"
All 5: .59"
Velocity: 1044 fps
Energy: 980 ft lbs

N340: 13.0 grains + wad
Best 4: .85"
All 5: 1.33"
Velocity: 1108 fps
Energy: 1104 ft lbs

Trail Boss: 13.0 grains + wad
Best 4: 1.07"
All 5: 1.47"
Velocity: 1007 fps
Energy: 912 ft lbs

Solo 1000: 13.0 grains + wad (Not too shabby….)
Best 4: .80"
All 5 : .90"

I'm pretty certain that most folks here can shoot better than me, so have at it. But I just wanted to let you know that I found these rounds safe in MY 1895 Marlin and a hoot to shoot.

My favorite light "plinkers" are the Unique 15.0 grains, the Unique 11.0 grains, VV N340 12.0 grains, and the Solo 1000 13.0 grains for this rifle. If you are new to reloading .45-70's and think you can skip the step of a fiber wad while using a light charge of pistol powder (except for UNIQUE powder which is not position sensitive and requires no wad but I used them anyways just for uniformity), do not attempt to do so!

Poly-Coated 405's.jpg Inserting vegetable wad.jpg Inspection of fired brass.jpg Inspection of primers.jpg 12.0 N340.jpg

**Stooperzero** · August 9th, 2015, 05:44 PM

thats why i never used dacron before, always used Unique .

**big buffalo** · September 3rd, 2015, 12:03 PM

I love my handi in 45-70. I hand load, started out with Mir 4198 with 400gr Barnes org and it is a shooter. At 300gr I use either a Sierra jhp or a Hornsby jhp. Both do awesome Mir 4198. I heard how 4198 keeps the barrel filthy and such. I have not seen any of that. But recently I loaded up 10 of the horn addy and 10 of the Sierra with reloaded 7. Just to see. The 400 gr Barnes with 4198 I'm not messing with but the 300gr could use some improvements. That is my two cents worth