Use of Firearm in a Confrontation

[Gallo]

First of all, I am new to the forum, although I have been reading the posts for some time now. Truly have become wiser in understanding the various points of owning a firearm. I recently obtaine my PA LTCF. I reside in Galeton, PA, in Potter County.

While on my way to the range I was thinking about some of the posts that I have read about protecting yourself or family while walking down the street. I am born and raise in NYC and have seen my share of assaults. This is what I had problems with, and maybe some posts would provide some light into the situation.

Let's say that you are walking either alone, or with family. You notice a few guys crossing the street to be on the side that you are walking in. You notice that one of them has a firearm pulled (or knife large enough to be noticed). You turn to see that you and your family are the only ones walking on this side of the sidewalk. The question is at what point do you consider your life and/or your family's life to be at stake?

I understand that if you can run from a situation you are to do so, also that you are to be cooperative in handing over personal possessions. I also understand that if you are surprised by the encounter you cooperate and pray for the best. However, I am talking about a situation where there is time to get between your family and the armed person and draw your own weapon.

I know that some will say that you cooperate, however, it seems that at that point you are praying that once they have stripped all of your family and yourself of all possessions, including your firearm, that they will just go away!

Well, I will just leave it at that and read the replies. I don't think that I could gamble with my family's lives and hope that they would proceed to go even further with an assault even after giving up my possessions. These guys are not good people, and trusting that they would just do the right thing and just go away seems ignorant.

Gallo

[PisnNapalm]

Whoa.... I'm not sure where to start exactly....

I'll begin with, "Welcome to the forums." You've posed an interesting first post. It's difficult to answer because each situation is different.

If I am aware that something bad is about to happen and I can maneuver myself/family out of danger I will. If I perceive that danger is imminent I would probably draw my weapon and make it clear to the bad guys that I will not be an "easy target".

I highly doubt that a group of bad guys would leave you alone after taking your stuff at knife or gun point. So I would not be inclined to pray for the best.

[markheck1]

Right then and there, my family's lives are in danger
Immediately turn and go in the direction away from them,
I may or may not draw, depending on my level of fight or flight.....
Granted someone in my group would probably be calling 911
If the weapon is raised towards me, well..i won't say more

That said if they get close enough where cooperation is my only option, I figure I am already dead, but that's just my worthless opinion

[jon'76]

Read jeff coopers principles of personal defense.

IMO you should always have time to get your weapon out, and if you get surprised (you need to work on situational awareness) you should have the basic skills to create distance to get to your weapon.

Never cooperate and hand over your possessions that reinforces the behavior and it will be repeated.

Act aggressively enough, soon enough and 99% of attackers will flee if they're still able too.

[TonyF]

Let's say that you are walking either alone, or with family. You notice a few guys crossing the street to be on the side that you are walking in. You notice that one of them has a firearm pulled (or knife large enough to be noticed). You turn to see that you and your family are the only ones walking on this side of the sidewalk. The question is at what point do you consider your life and/or your family's life to be at stake?

The underlying principle is AOJ.

Does the threat have the ability to cause death or serious bodily harm?

Does the threat have the opportunity to cause death or serious bodily harm?

Are you in jeopardy?

Your proximity to the threat will likely be the determining factor regarding whether or not he has the "opportunity" to do you harm.

If he has a knife and you're 30 yards away, he has the ability but "O" and "J" are not satisfied.

Creating distance is the best option. That may include getting the hell out of Dodge or it may be enough to simply cross the street and walk in the opposite direction.

It's complicated.

[Gallo]

I guess what I am trying to say in this situation is that if you are going to get robbed, it is a good bet that it will either be at knife or gun point. Both which can be a threat to life. So if it is an element of surprise then I can understand cooperating and hoping for the best. However, if you actually see the firearm or knife in time, and cannot avoid the confrontation I believe the draw and ready with verbal commands may be the only choice. However, the law with regards to this seems questionable at best.

[tes151]

If you see a weapon you can reasonably assume they intend to use it, which would make me fear for my life and that of others. There is no such thing as cooperating with anybody trying to rob me. I have no way of knowing if they will kill me after they get what they want, so shooting would be justified IMO.

[TonyF]

However, the law with regards to this seems questionable at best.

Not really. What's difficult is any one of us being able to process information as the the situation unfolds and act within the law, and often having to do so in a very compressed time frame.

[edstephan]

First, I would put myself between the BG's and my family then it would be up to the BG's as to what happens.
Ed

[Asmodeus6]

If I saw it coming, and it was iminent... My gut reaction would be to step in front of her, draw, hand the woman my keys and send her away. Putting me in between.

Guy with gun, if he started to raise it at me I'd fire. IMO anything less than 25yds - Bullets move faster than I can run. Simple.

Guy with knife I'd let him close, see the gun and ask him if he wanted to die.
He gets within 5-7 feet I'd shoot him no question. If he runs at me I'd shoot him at 10-12ft.

I value my life but I value hers more. What happens to me legal or otherwise I will deal with.
In a situation like that I cannot see processing bad guy / good lawyer / bad lawyer / situation / protecting family. I'd be more worried about not missing. Than legal ramifications.