DOJ finalizing rule change for Trusts, LLC and Corporation's

[ShooterInPA1]

if you look at the dates in the box, final action isnt until december this year. so nothing has changed yet.

I need to hit the store soon for a Sparrow.

[esh21167]

Easier for individuals, tougher for trusts/LLC's/etc. Now with a trust, I have to have 5 'responsible persons' get fingerprints and photos for each application. I suspect that would get interesting if someone had those people in different municipalities, or counties, or states. Not too convenient.

So is this also death to the e-file option? I can't see that ATF would accept scanned images of fingerprints. Maybe photos, but not prints.

It's a step toward universal BGC's. Along with whatever O can get with this EO's.

[Xringshooter]

I am an FFL01 /SOT3 and what we are waiting for is to see exactly how they define "responsible person(s)". It may be the person who draws up the trust or it may be all the trustees. It may be the president/owner/manager, etc. of the LLC or it may be anyone listed as a partner of the LLC. We just don't know yet. If it is all the trustees of a trust, they would have to get fingerprinted and send the FP cards and their photos to the person who drew up the trust and he would include that paperwork with the Form1 or Form4 along with a copy of the trust.

Many gun dealers are looking into getting either digital fingerprint machines (expensive unless you are a large dealer) or standard fingerprinting equipment and cameras to take the pictures. That way everything can be done at one place. There is no requirement that the fingerprints be done by LEOs. Digital FP machine are expensive but you can store someone's fingerprints indefinitely so they don't have to have it done each time the file a form.

There just isn't a lot of info out there about this yet. I'm betting we (FFL's) get inundated by messages from the ATF in the coming months. The changes start 180 days from the day this is published in the Federal Register. The good news is that anything that is in the system up to day 180, does not need the new requirements, so you have a few months to get all your paperwork started.

We don't know and I don't think the ATF knows what they're going to do with E-File yet, all of that will have to get worked out in the next six months.

[Xringshooter]

I need to hit the store soon for a Sparrow.

I have 2 in stock at the shop right now and have a couple from a different manufacturer coming in any day

[NathanB]

Great info from someone who has done more than his fair share for nfa transactions.

[TheGhost27]

I'm wondering what the "CLEO Notification" will be and how to complete it...

[KingShootersSupply]

http://blog.princelaw.com/2016/01/05...on-to-atf-41p/

Responsible person. In the case of an unlicensed entity, including any trust, partnership, association, company (including any Limited Liability Company (LLC)), or corporation, any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity. In the case of a trust, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust.

[Xringshooter]

http://blog.princelaw.com/2016/01/05...on-to-atf-41p/

Responsible person. In the case of an unlicensed entity, including any trust, partnership, association, company (including any Limited Liability Company (LLC)), or corporation, any individual who possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust or entity to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust or legal entity. In the case of a trust, those persons with the power or authority to direct the management and policies of the trust include any person who has the capability to exercise such power and possesses, directly or indirectly, the power or authority under any trust instrument, or under State law, to receive, possess, ship, transport, deliver, transfer, or otherwise dispose of a firearm for, or on behalf of, the trust.

Using that definition, then anyone listed as a trustee on a NFA trust would have to submit their FP card and photos to the person executing the trust to be included with all the other paperwork. But, you never know how the ATF is going to define "responsible person", but if it can hinder law abiding people, you know they will make it as hard as possible for us.

[morpheus6d9]

what i dont understand it seems everyone wants 41p to happen ?

[KingShootersSupply]

Using that definition, then anyone listed as a trustee on a NFA trust would have to submit their FP card and photos to the person executing the trust to be included with all the other paperwork. But, you never know how the ATF is going to define "responsible person", but if it can hinder law abiding people, you know they will make it as hard as possible for us.

Respectfully, you need to go look at the final rule. The definition I supplied IS how ATF is defining "responsible person". There is no longer any question about how they are defining the term.