Open carry of an AR-15 and police response based on race

[bluetrane2028]

Saw this going around Facebook this morning. Claims to be the same state with the same laws. First encounter is of a white guy who gets stopped by the police and let go on his way. Second encounter is of a black guy who gets proned out, detained and has his rifle taken.

Now, I'm not one to usually bring up racial issues, but if this is really all in the same state that's some fucked up stuff. The black guy wasn't dressed in a particularly bad way either.

Thoughts?

Personally, I'm for equal rights for all citizens and based upon what I see from the video (there could always be more to the story)... that's far from what is reality.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

We were at the Colonial Park Mall, In Harrisburg. about a year ago. The Mall is mostly staffed, patronized by colored citizens, if I had to guess I would say most have ancestors from the African Continent.

As we walked through the mall my wife observed that she had never seen anyone except "white" people Open Carrying & she wondered why. My reply is that they do not what to be shot by a cop.

Which was before all of the latest racial tension, and I think also true. Firearms laws a.k.a. gun control have always existed in this country to keep the "negro" & to a lesser extent other "undesirable" persons of colour (Asians, Indians) from having firearms or being able to carry them. The Reverend Ken Blanchard talks about this on his excellent firearms Podcast from time to time, which I recommend all Americans listen to.

http://blackmanwithagun.com/frederic...as-a-gun-owner

http://blackmanwithagun.com/407-black-man-gun-podcast

I recommend episode 407 to ALL Americans. It talks of the Deacons of Defense, a armed black group of mostly Military Vets who were unwilling to allow themselves or their neighbors to be lynched, and provided the armed support that allowed peaceful marches to happen. He also speaks of his grandmothers traditions, which among other things ensured everyone knew she was armed.

[ungawa]

Let me be clear that I am not saying any of this is OK, nor am I making excuses, but here are some potential answers other than "Racist Cops" which I suppose is a possibility.

1. The white guy was clearly not able to deploy his rifle. It was slung right across his back. The black guy had it right on his side next to his hand and could have grabbed it and deployed it if he wanted to.

2. There was nothing wrong with the way the black guy was dressed. But the white guy looked better. He had a golf shirt on, new jeans, and newer shoes. The black guy had a black t-shirt, worn jeans, older shoes.

3. I can't tell for sure but it looks like the black guy was in a worse neighborhood.

Total it all up, with or without a little black prejudice, you could come up with different situations.

The Cops

4. The white guy was approached by a member of the local police department. The black guy was approached by a Sheriff's Deputy.

5. I don't know how things work up there, but even two different cops might act in two different ways. We know from the history of stories on this website that somebody seems to get the luck of the draw for no reason and there are places/departments (Montco/Swiftwater) where cops cause a lot of problems over this stuff.

Could be luck of the draw.

6. Aside from full-blown racism or profiling, there is a possibility the Sheriff's office is continuously involved with crime or violence involving black people (or young people) in that area and have been conditioned to be on alert when a black person is seen doing something suspicious. It's not OK if that prejudice affects the job but unfortunately it's an indisputable aspect of human nature.S

[mrat]

I'm not saying this isn't discrimination, but in PA different locations, different police departments, different officers, would all have different reactions. Viper gets stopped in Philly all the time, but if he was in a county in the Northern Tier he probably would have quite a different OC log. But then again, just walking by a black man in the boonies might be reasonable suspicion. Hell, Rambo wasn't black or carrying an AR and look what happened to him. The woman recording and doing the play by play saying " They're handcuffing him" when they weren't and "They're taking his rifle" when the officer pick it up off the street is embellishing the story. I thought the cop who removed the sling and frisked the guy was quite gentle and respectful, IMO. I'm not saying this stop was handled correctly, though. At least all dogs in the area made it home safe.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

Let me be clear that I am not saying any of this is OK, nor am I making excuses, but here are some potential answers other than "Racist Cops" which I suppose is a possibility.

1. The white guy was clearly not able to deploy his rifle. It was slung right across his back. The black guy had it right on his side next to his hand and could have grabbed it and deployed it if he wanted to.


2. There was nothing wrong with the way the black guy was dressed. But the white guy looked better. He had a golf shirt on, new jeans, and newer shoes. The black guy had a black t-shirt, worn jeans, older shoes.

3. I can't tell for sure but it looks like the black guy was in a worse neighborhood.

Total it all up, with or without a little black prejudice, you could come up with different situations.

The Cops

4. The white guy was approached by a member of the local police department. The black guy was approached by a Sheriff's Deputy.

5. I don't know how things work up there, but even two different cops might act in two different ways. We know from the history of stories on this website that somebody seems to get the luck of the draw for no reason and there are places/departments (Montco/Swiftwater) where cops cause a lot of problems over this stuff.

Could be luck of the draw.

6. Aside from full-blown racism or profiling, there is a possibility the Sheriff's office is continuously involved with crime or violence involving black people (or young people) in that area and have been conditioned to be on alert when a black person is seen doing something suspicious. It's not OK if that prejudice affects the job but unfortunately it's an indisputable aspect of human nature.S

1. I disagree. Both weapons are on slings, Both could be deployed in less than a second. The 3 point sling on the black man guns shows he spent more money on his sling, and may indicate more range time/reading of gun literature/education.
2. agreed.
3. I agree it is hard to say. Both look crappy IMO.
4 No Comment
5. No Comment.

6. The Sheriff's dept is now well on its way to a 4th amendment lawsuit according to the latest US District court ruling on the 4th amendment. In addition, It can not be argued that the officer should be facing at least three charges of an assault with a deadly weapon charge for pointing a loading firearm at a person without any justification. (man, pregnant woman and baby) . We can clearly see non-threatening body language, a camera man, no crime being committed. Although prejudice affects all people and interactions between all people - what the officer did rises well above that, well into the regions of a hate crime & not only violates the 4th amendment, but the 13th and 14th as well.

[QuackXP]

Let me be clear that I am not saying any of this is OK, nor am I making excuses, but here are some potential answers other than "Racist Cops" which I suppose is a possibility.

1. The white guy was clearly not able to deploy his rifle. It was slung right across his back. The black guy had it right on his side next to his hand and could have grabbed it and deployed it if he wanted to.

2. There was nothing wrong with the way the black guy was dressed. But the white guy looked better. He had a golf shirt on, new jeans, and newer shoes. The black guy had a black t-shirt, worn jeans, older shoes.

3. I can't tell for sure but it looks like the black guy was in a worse neighborhood.

Total it all up, with or without a little black prejudice, you could come up with different situations.

The Cops

4. The white guy was approached by a member of the local police department. The black guy was approached by a Sheriff's Deputy.

5. I don't know how things work up there, but even two different cops might act in two different ways. We know from the history of stories on this website that somebody seems to get the luck of the draw for no reason and there are places/departments (Montco/Swiftwater) where cops cause a lot of problems over this stuff.

Could be luck of the draw.

6. Aside from full-blown racism or profiling, there is a possibility the Sheriff's office is continuously involved with crime or violence involving black people (or young people) in that area and have been conditioned to be on alert when a black person is seen doing something suspicious. It's not OK if that prejudice affects the job but unfortunately it's an indisputable aspect of human nature.S

Also how many times did the run this exercise? Over what period of time? Maybe the had to have both the black and the white guy go out 10 different times before they got the result for the video they wanted.

Given all the examples listed above my post plus the magic of video editing. This serves to me as zero evidence of systematic racial profiling.

I'm not saying profiling is not out there but this does not make a good case.

[Deleted]

If u are going to try and run a racism and guns study please TRY to make it at least semi valid before try and draw conclusions from it.

Use the same or statistically similar police departments....
Use test subjects dressed in identical manners and carrying identical equipment...

Basically the only variable should be skin color.

[PAMedic=F|A=]

If u are going to try and run a racism and guns study please TRY to make it at least semi valid before try and draw conclusions from it.

Use the same or statistically similar police departments....
Use test subjects dressed in identical manners and carrying identical equipment...

Basically the only variable should be skin color.

Agreed.

[ungawa]

If u are going to try and run a racism and guns study please TRY to make it at least semi valid before try and draw conclusions from it.

Use the same or statistically similar police departments....
Use test subjects dressed in identical manners and carrying identical equipment...

Basically the only variable should be skin color.

In other words, it will never be possible under any circumstances to meet SteelCity's standards.

There will always be a lurking variable. And, should you try to meet his standards, then you would require enough testing that you have altered the landscape in an artificial and confrontational manner and the tests would become increasingly invalid.

[streaker69]

In other words, it will never be possible under any circumstances to meet SteelCity's standards.

There will always be a lurking variable. And, should you try to meet his standards, then you would require enough testing that you have altered the landscape in an artificial and confrontational manner and the tests would become increasingly invalid.

I think he has a valid point though, you're a scientific type dude, you know that to make the results accurate you need to reduce the number of variables.

We, as a group, could probably do this. Unfortunately, I don't know any black guys. It would be fun to try it out with different races, get an asian, a puerto rican, an indian, and the other type of indian.