Use of deadly force question

**Gun** · April 25th, 2015, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by butch708

Let's say you come across 2 guys fist fighting and they end up on the ground with one on top of the other. The guy on top is beating the snot out of the helpless guy on the bottom. Being a lawfully carrying citizen, can you justifyably shoot the man on the top.

As in not fighting back, I would state, in a very demonstrated way, to stop, or I will stop you myself.

**Kabloosh** · April 25th, 2015, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gun

As in not fighting back, I would state, in a very demonstrated way, to stop, or I will stop you myself.

Communication is key and this is a good start.

If the incident went down as you stated then yes, it is a potentially deadly force situation since "ground pounding" which is what the guy on top is doing to the guy on bottom can cause serious bodily harm or death.

However, you don't need to just pull and shoot. You need to communicate your actions to the individual such as yelling "stop" clearly and something like "get off of him now!"

You could put yourself into harms way and pull the guy off, but I wouldn't. You don't want to put yourself at risk as well.

Your voice is your most powerful tool is ending a situation. If you say the right things and with a commanding tone you could definitely end the situation with no further harm to anyone which is what you want. The last thing we need is dead people and really the only time you should be potentially ending a life is in the defense of another.

**wanneroo** · April 26th, 2015, 01:07 PM

Reading this thread makes me think how often do people actually come across people in a major punch up anyways?

I adhere to the philosophy of staying out of bars and that nothing good happens after 10 pm at night. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw people fighting it out and I can't remember.

**sprrdhawk44** · April 26th, 2015, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by wanneroo

Reading this thread makes me think how often do people actually come across people in a major punch up anyways?

I adhere to the philosophy of staying out of bars and that nothing good happens after 10 pm at night. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw people fighting it out and I can't remember.

I agree, though I see value in the question. It's good to have a plan before something happens, as coming up with something on the fly usually sucks.

That said, with the exception of maybe or two, every fight I've seen has been in a bar. I remedied that by no longer going to them.

**Square Bag** · April 26th, 2015, 01:16 PM

Your firearm is to protect you and yours. Be a good witness and call 911. Dont play a hero and get jammed up.

**Square Bag** · April 26th, 2015, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by QuackXP

I would not fire at them unless they suddenly turned their violence on me.

I would draw, low ready and issue a command to stop. If they did not I would have to assess the situation if I could stop it without deadly force or not. I still would not fire not knowing what lead up to the fight.

Drawing low ready just interjected you into a situation that has nothing to do with you and may have just caused the threat to turn towards you and may certainly come back and bite you in the ass later on. Remain the witness call the Police that's what they get paid for.

**Carnes** · April 27th, 2015, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Square Bag

Your firearm is to protect you and yours. Be a good witness and call 911. Dont play a hero and get jammed up.

What if you know what is going on? As in, you have good reason to be able to correctly identify who is the victim, and who is the perpetrator?

State law says that you can use lethal force to stop certain crimes, or are you still going to be nothing more than a good witness?

When the NRA said it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun, they weren't talking about the police that are minutes away, they were talking about armed citizens... armed passers-by.

I get the notion that it is foolish/wrong to start shooting people when you don't know what is going on, but I think it is worse than foolish to operate under the assumption that you won't get involved in anything unless it's, "me and mine."

You have to have a realistic sense of where you really draw the line before the situation happens, because you won't have time to figure it out on the spot. Shame on anyone that really thinks they draw the line at, "me and mine," I wouldn't want you to be my neighbor. A free society depends on good people taking risks to do good things.

I imagine that the nanny-staters are filled with joy when they see how a community of firearms owners self-neuters itself and espouses dependency on the authorities to handle problems.

(IT, I had a misunderstanding about your position, but the position I thought you were advocating is clearly held by plenty of people, and I find it troubling. I appologize to you and shame on those that fit the relevant description.)