NFA Engraving in PA

[TheGhost27]

Any options in SWPA and Pittsburgh region? Allegheny Gunworks sold their laser engraver to Anthony Arms, who won't have it up and running for 1-2 months.

Maybe a roadtrip to somewhere that does....?

[GunLawyer001]

Do SBR builders know that if the lower is already engraved with the manufactures name, city and state, model number and serial number that it doesn't need anything else. Now, it the receiver has absolutely no markings on it at all, then it needs to be engraved before submitting the Form 1.

Not sure what you mean here. If you manufacture an NFA firearm from an existing Title I firearm, then it's not enough that it says "Colt's Mfg Co Inc / Hartford CONN". They made the Title I firearm, but you're making the NFA firearm, so you do have to add your name, city and state. You can re-use the existing serial #.

The timing is also flexible. It can indeed be completely blank at the time that you submit the Form 1 (if you started with an 80% receiver, for example, or a tube), and in fact I recommend that you wait until you get the approval before marking your receiver. They can and do reject forms based on improper abbreviations, mis-matches of names, etc. It's really hard to fix the engraving after it's done, so wait until they approve your proposed markings before cutting metal.

[Splittiebus66]

Do SBR builders know that if the lower is already engraved with the manufactures name, city and state, model number and serial number that it doesn't need anything else. Now, it the receiver has absolutely no markings on it at all, then it needs to be engraved before submitting the Form 1.

Yeah you have to engrave it. You are the new manufacturer of the weapon. That's what a form 1 is after alls, an application to make or register a firearm.....in the case of an SBR you are makin the bacon!

[Xringshooter]

Yep, you're right, I was incorrect in my interpretation of what I read the first time. I got my head out of my butt and reread it completely, not just skimming it and of course picked up the rest of the story and then reread the newest Form 1. Even though it may be identified by the original manufacturer, the builder (maker) of the NFA weapon must also be identified on the receiver of barrel in a conspicuous location. I will delete the incorrect info,I don't want to mislead anyone.. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

[Splittiebus66]

Yep, you're right, I was incorrect in my interpretation of what I read the first time. I got my head out of my butt and reread it completely, not just skimming it and of course picked up the rest of the story and then reread the newest Form 1. Even though it may be identified by the original manufacturer, the builder (maker) of the NFA weapon must also be identified on the receiver of barrel in a conspicuous location. I will delete the incorrect info,I don't want to mislead anyone.. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

Hey, no worries. The shit is so convoluted, retarded, gay and stupid all in one. All to own a fucking titties AR15/SBR/whatev. Fucking dumb ass worthless NFA.

[JoshIronshaft]

Well...tell me how you really feel!

[Gun]

Well...tell me how you really feel!

It is spelled out in his signature.




About the other question.

§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?

(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:

(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and

(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

Remember, you are the MAKER, NOT the MANUFACTURER, because the latter requires a special license from the govt.

IANAL.

To EDIT;

Some mixed opinions on engraving; http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....-SBR-Engraving

[Splittiebus66]

Well...tell me how you really feel!

You don't agree the NFA is convoluted, retarded, gay and stupid? I know it gets you paid but shit.....!

[GunLawyer001]

. . .

Some mixed opinions on engraving; http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....-SBR-Engraving

I had to stop reading the linked thread, the fail was making my head hurt.

The law is not determined by a majority vote of what people have been able to get away with; if it were, the legal speed limit on I-95 would be 75 MPH in PA.

That's the argument that seems most prevalent, though. "I talked to an LEO, and he said..." or "a bunch of old timer FFL's said..." The consensus of amateurs is often wrong. The consensus of professionals is wrong a lot of the time, too (look at Global Warming).

Lack of prosecution is not evidence of legality. Trust me, you don't want to needlessly give any LEO something to hang his hat on over an NFA firearm. It may be seized because "all them sawed-off guns is illegal", but once the LEO has it, he's probably going to try to find a reason to keep it and save face. Failure to mark that gun is such a reason. Look at all the guns seized in PA because the ROSD doesn't show it as being "registered" to that citizen, and that's not even a legal requirement, or possible. The marking requirement exists, and is pretty easy to find out about.

Don't give ATF or local cops a reason to seize or keep your property. Engraving is cheap. You can even do it yourself with a Dremel engraving tool.

For the answer to legal questions, look at the statutes and regulations, not the guys hanging out at the gun shop, or the ticket-writer in blue. It's absolutely clear, if you make an NFA firearm, you have to engrave your name, city & state on that firearm. Taking an existing non-NFA firearm (a Title I gun) and making it an NFA firearm (Title II) is "making" a new firearm.

[JoshIronshaft]

You don't agree the NFA is convoluted, retarded, gay and stupid? I know it gets you paid but shit.....!

I agree it should be abolished, I was just making a comment.