Firearm Self Defense Situation

**RockIsland** · April 16th, 2015, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bill67

I'd vomit and then pee myself.

I'd blow my rape whistle to make sure I didn't get raped.

**vladtepes** · April 16th, 2015, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by stainless

OP could be referring to the mini mall/gas station event a few days ago.

The prep school bad boys.

yes sir... talking about the gas station for sure..

I am thinking if 20+ people come running after me.. and I could escape.. then sure.. I would escape.. a store to run into to lock the door behind.. maybe a helicopter to lift me to safety? lol but your reasonable ability to outrun a mob is pretty slim.. your reasonable ability to fight 20 people.. again slim...

so in my mind... sure.. I try to get away..
but when that fails.. do I shoot? I can without question think that is a reasonable use of force..

**ungawa** · April 16th, 2015, 04:15 PM

That guy obviously could not escape in complete safety, and he should thank his lucky stars he didn't die trying.

If they had rematches and gave him best out of ten I bet he'd lose 9 of them.

In my opinion, escape with complete safety is I am on the fourth floor balcony of a hotel, somebody shoots at me, and I go back inside. Or Gunlawer001's scenario in which you are in the wrong biker bar or the wrong gang territory and they tell you that they will kill you unless you leave.

I think on the street, faced with a credible threat, there are few scenarios under which you can retreat in complete safety. But I have no doubt prosecutors and some juries think it is perfectly safe for me to run away from Dindo Nuffin's under all sorts of scenarios. At least we have armed confrontation covered now with Castle Doctrine (the poorly named 2011 PA Stand Your Ground revisions).

**vladtepes** · April 16th, 2015, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by ungawa

That guy obviously could not escape in complete safety, and he should thank his lucky stars he didn't die trying.

If they had rematches and gave him best out of ten I bet he'd lose 9 of them.

In my opinion, escape with complete safety is I am on the fourth floor balcony of a hotel, somebody shoots at me, and I go back inside. Or Gunlawer001's scenario in which you are in the wrong biker bar or the wrong gang territory and they tell you that they will kill you unless you leave.

I think on the street, faced with a credible threat, there are few scenarios under which you can retreat in complete safety. But I have no doubt prosecutors and some juries think it is perfectly safe for me to run away from Dindo Nuffin's under all sorts of scenarios. At least we have armed confrontation covered now with Castle Doctrine (the poorly named 2011 PA Stand Your Ground revisions).

law should be revised to address unreasonably large groups of attackers... I mean.. I carry an extra 22 round mag in addition to the mag in the gun.. I am not even sure thats enough rounds..

although.. I guess when the bullets start flying.. a lot would get to running..

**ungawa** · April 16th, 2015, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by vladtepes

law should be revised to address unreasonably large groups of attackers... I mean.. I carry an extra 22 round mag in addition to the mag in the gun.. I am not even sure thats enough rounds..

although.. I guess when the bullets start flying.. a lot would get to running..

We've been working on a disparity of force clause, but it hasn't seen the light of day lately. Contact Whitefeather to ask for guidance.

**GeneCC** · April 17th, 2015, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by vladtepes

So.. this might be an unusual situation.. but I was just watching the news and a mod of like 25+ people attacked a single man.. in my mind.. if I were that man, I think it would be reasonable to be fearful of great bodily hard and or death... as 25 people attacking you in a mod is easily capable of that outcome... if I were in that situation could I shoot?

Want to know for certain? Get yourself a little face time with a competent defense attorney. No kidding.

Free advice - it is DAMN hard to keep 25 people off of your ass with a handgun unless you can get them to flee. In which case you best stop firing. However ask the Attorney what he or she thinks.

**vladtepes** · April 18th, 2015, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by GeneCC

Want to know for certain? Get yourself a little face time with a competent defense attorney. No kidding.

Free advice - it is DAMN hard to keep 25 people off of your ass with a handgun unless you can get them to flee. In which case you best stop firing. However ask the Attorney what he or she thinks.

the closest experience I have to that is multiple people fighting.. not so much 1 vs 20.. more like 5 vs 5... someone pulled a knife.. and people ran.. obviously the person with the knife could not have "gotten them all".. but I think what it boiled down to is none of the people wanted to be the one stabbed.. my hopes would be gunfire.. and one or two dropping would be enough to make the other individuals rethink the decision to continue the attack..

I certainly agree with your point about the lawyer.. I was just curious how the law read.. if anyone knew anything..

**fzammetti** · April 19th, 2015, 12:36 AM

Hey, no problem:

"Your honor, I took two steps back. My retreat didn't work. Then I did what I should have done in the first place and took as many down as I could while the others got the idea and ran."

Done and done*.

*Worth noting IANAL.

**Mitch10mm** · April 19th, 2015, 07:59 AM

It's very important to know what happened leading to the mob attacking. Prior to stepping into the street, by chance did you hear: "Runners! Take your mark. Ready! Go!" Followed by the sound of a gunshot ?