Good DMR Rifle.

**matrosov** · April 3rd, 2015, 12:49 AM

Ok I see that this question gets asked frequently around here but wording is ambiguous at times so responses range quite a bit. So I'll try to ask it as precisely as I can.

At some point in the past I missed an opportunity to get a real deal SVD (TIGR) rifle and I am still kicking myself for it. Now with a price of 5K it is definitely out of value for the money range so I'm looking for suggestions of what rifles can comparatively fit the bill. Here are the requirements.

1) Mil spec DMR rifle,not hunting version.
2) Effective Range 200-600 yards
3) Caliber .308,.223 I might consider but I am not sure if it can perform at upper range. I do not reload and exotic calibers are way too expensive.
4) Semi auto or Bolt are both fine. If it is a bolt action it has to hold more than one round.
5) Price with optics 3K or less, preferably less

6) Accuracy is hard for me to pin point since I've seen submoa performance from and SVD at 1K in a hands of skilled shooter. I'll rely on you to tell me what is an acceptable grouping for a DMR rifle at maximum range.

Thanks a lot for your input.

**Splittiebus66** · April 3rd, 2015, 01:15 AM

Are you talking pure accuracy, or are we mixing in killing bad people effectively at range?

**matrosov** · April 3rd, 2015, 01:18 AM

I never said anything about killing anybody on the open internet forum. But I want the round to be effective as well as accurate at this range. Wink Wink nudge nudge

**Hodgie** · April 3rd, 2015, 01:51 AM

Shooting sub MOA at 1k yards is the opposite of a DMR and the Tiger was never engineered with that or for that intent. DMR's are never bolt action rifles when used in a military application. Their role isn't for grouping or shooting MOA they are ment to deploy at the squad level and provide accurate surpassing fire and support.

I suppose anything can be used for a DMR these days depending on how it's set up. The M1A, PSL, Veper .308 or x54r even a FAL type rifle not that I would choose it. With a standard M1A shooing Irons at 300 yards prone and sitting my groups would average 4-5.5". Scoped with the right load that will tighten up a good bit and be more consistent. Your not shooting sub or even MOA with any of the above rifles at 600 and beyond.

**Splittiebus66** · April 3rd, 2015, 02:20 AM

Yes, Hodgie.

In the light of .223, I don't think it would fit all your requirements if you add in the real world deployment aspect of said acronym gun. .223/5.56 DMR/light sniping semi guns like the USMC SAM-R or Mk12 SPR (and the aftermarket COTS ilk) can be expected to group moa or better to 700 yds or beyond under the right circumstances when shooting for pure accuracy.

In their role, however these guns are typically a choice for 0 -300 if possible due to the increase in environmental interference/questionable terminal ballistics/barrier blind performance that the .223 suffers (even with heavy OTMs like the mk262 mod 1) past a certain point. From what I understand, talking to people, and reading accounts from folks who hurt bad smelly goat fuckers in foreign lands, it's not that you can't throat shot a dickbag at 700 with a .223 and fuck his day up, you just want some more ooomph at that point to make sure you fuck his day up fo sho. Of course you will hear astonishing stories of long range .223 kills, but that was probably more of the higher ups not giving folks what they needed, a scenario where the gun was forced to perform, and/or more or less the sheer guile and skill of the American fighting man .

If I (me) were picking out a dream (no price limit) modern gun to perform this role COTS in some sort of dicked up acronym scenario, I'd go with a SCAR 17 scoped with the Leupold 1-8 CQBSS M5B1 in some sort of boss mount, a Harris or Atlas (some sort of quality) bipod, a Dead Air Sandman suppressor, and Geissele trigger as well as a tactical bean bag. And a bag of skittles.

**Hodgie** · April 3rd, 2015, 02:23 AM

Ahhh I forgot about the SCAR definatly something to think about with that.

**MichaelVain** · April 3rd, 2015, 06:48 AM

SCAR an run you quite a bit into the 5k range after addressing some of the shortcomings such as trigger. Mags are proprietary and 40/ea.

At this price, I love my SR25 ECC. CQBSS is really good.

Oh course, we just busted your budget with the scope alone.

**matrosov** · April 3rd, 2015, 07:31 AM

Hodgie thank for the input. You tell me what MOA at 600 yards should be for a decent marksman not sniper rifle. from the pure engineering perspective.

Like I said I've seen skill overcome engineering and have never shot for pure grouping accuracy at longer ranges. Sniper rifle, i.e. sub MOA at 1000 yards, I cannot afford but I thought that 3K can get me a reasonably accurate longer range gun.

PSL's and Vepr's won't go much beyond 350 yards accuracy wise they are basically and RPK, AK hybrid with even looser tolerances than SVD. If I remember correctly SVD's "normal" grouping was one inch for every 100 yards. You had to hit chest sized target at 300 and full size at 600 when qualifying with it, but Russians always built functional, ugly and reliable. so I cannot use SVD as a gold standard of accuracy.

**NathanB** · April 3rd, 2015, 08:08 AM

There comes a point where skill cannot overcome the inherent accuracy of a rifle. If that rifle is not capable of shooting beyond a certain accuracy set, then adding a superb shooter to the mix will not make it perform better than that. You should be able to find something in that budget that allows you to put together something awesome

**ianb1116** · April 3rd, 2015, 09:13 AM

Check out Nemo Arms. They make some, apparently, really great high caliber ARs. The picture I've attached is their ODIN Match 2.0 Rifle. Chambered in .300 Win Mag, this could definitely reach out and touch someone at 1000 yards.

Good luck!

Trop Gun shop is listed as a dealer too. As is Chester County Outdoors.