Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    The "ends" are great but do the justify the means?

    Stopping people without PC/RAS just because you follow a pattern for the stops. Again, only legal because the government gave the government permission to do it.
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    Jimmy cracked corn and HE didn't care! Why should I?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Why don't they just break into our homes and rob us at gun point.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Lol, its not that bad but poses the question why not check every 3rd house or every blue house and search?
    If they can do it with a car why not a house?

    What they are doing just seems so dirty. I know they took care of a lot of trash but . . .

    Look at all of those warnings? I wonder what those are. Blown tail lights and such?
    Jimmy cracked corn and HE didn't care! Why should I?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Quote Originally Posted by dunno View Post
    The "ends" are great but do the justify the means?

    Stopping people without PC/RAS just because you follow a pattern for the stops. Again, only legal because the government gave the government permission to do it.
    Where do you get that the stops were without PC/RAS????

  5. #5
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
    Where do you get that the stops were without PC/RAS????
    The report does say that they were roving patrols, which would require RAS, as opposed to a checkpoint, which wouldn't. But some simple math makes me wonder about RAS actually being Reasonable.

    There were 130 officers who participated, for a 4-hour stretch. I am surmising that they worked in teams of at least 2 officers per car, as this was a training exercise. That equals 65 teams. There were 928 total stops, divided by 4 hours, equals 232 stops per hour. Divide 232 by 65 teams, and that equals 3.56 stops per team, per hour. That is one stop less than every 17 minutes. Considering that some stops (especially the DUI and drug arrests) would have taken much longer than 17 minutes, I am having a hard time believing these were anything other than random stops while roving. It seems to me they would have had to finish a stop, get in the car, and select another vehicle to stop almost immediately, to achieve that many stops.

    Also, 807 of the 928 people stopped were allowed to go with simply a warning. That is about 87%. Almost 7 out of 8, with a warning. That doesn't sound like good "detective work" to me. That also makes me think that vehicles were being stopped under dubious RAS, and when nothing was found, a "warning" was issued.

    This is all just musings on my part, though. I could be wrong.
    Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? - J.R.R. Tolkien

    http://www.compassion.com/ See how God loves children

  6. #6
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
    Where do you get that the stops were without PC/RAS????
    Because of the check points, but of course I am unsure of the roving ones.

    I am shocked that 807 of the 928 had reason to be warned for something.
    Last edited by dunno; March 31st, 2015 at 10:18 PM.
    Jimmy cracked corn and HE didn't care! Why should I?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Well, its for your safety and everything, right?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
    Where do you get that the stops were without PC/RAS????
    Let's be clear, are we talking about truthful RAS/PC or the often encountered made up kind?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    Quote Originally Posted by ROCK-IT3 View Post
    and that equals 3.56 stops per team, per hour. That is one stop less than every 17 minutes. Considering that some stops (especially the DUI and drug arrests) would have taken much longer than 17 minutes, I am having a hard time believing these were anything other than random stops while roving. It seems to me they would have had to finish a stop, get in the car, and select another vehicle to stop almost immediately, to achieve that many.
    Take this for what it's worth. Just food for thought for your calculations........

    My "typical" stop is less than 10 minutes. A "nothing warning" usually takes me about 8 minutes start to finish. And the typical ticket can be as little as 5-6 minutes. Difference is just the type of report that we have to do in my dept. Our old documentation for a warning could take as little as 4-5 minutes.

    Now, depending on the location, time, and traffic volume... 4 stops per hour is easily attainable. And that's WITH PC for a traffic violation. A busy 4-way stop is like shooting fish in a barrel. A few examples of violations any idiot can see... Rolling the stop sign, headlight-tail light-reg light-brake light out, window tint, cracked windshield, expired inspection or reg sticker, all them low riders with tires extending too far, bumper height on low riders or lifted trucks, etc....

    We have a few intersections in my area where I let the minor stop sign violation go because I know a more serious one will be along any minute. Intersections that would keep 10 cops busy non stop for hours.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

    if the target of this program was drunk drivers & only 13% of over 800 stops were actual DUIs, sounds like a failure.

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