PSP's report on Operation Nighthawk

[jw34]

if the target of this program was drunk drivers & only 13% of over 800 stops were actual DUIs, sounds like a failure.

They did nothing to "target" drunk drivers IMO. They merely increased the quantity of contacts made. Higher number of contacts yields a higher number of dui arrests, but still the same percentage.
If they'd only stopped 100 cars, good chance they would've made about 13 arrests.

[Grey Bearded One]

Plus they stole four grand to buy beer and pizza.

[ROCK-IT3]

Take this for what it's worth. Just food for thought for your calculations........

My "typical" stop is less than 10 minutes. A "nothing warning" usually takes me about 8 minutes start to finish. And the typical ticket can be as little as 5-6 minutes. Difference is just the type of report that we have to do in my dept. Our old documentation for a warning could take as little as 4-5 minutes.

Now, depending on the location, time, and traffic volume... 4 stops per hour is easily attainable. And that's WITH PC for a traffic violation. A busy 4-way stop is like shooting fish in a barrel. A few examples of violations any idiot can see... Rolling the stop sign, headlight-tail light-reg light-brake light out, window tint, cracked windshield, expired inspection or reg sticker, all them low riders with tires extending too far, bumper height on low riders or lifted trucks, etc....

We have a few intersections in my area where I let the minor stop sign violation go because I know a more serious one will be along any minute. Intersections that would keep 10 cops busy non stop for hours.

Thanks for your practical knowledge. That's why I said I was only musing on the subject. I believe you can easily find things quickly to pull people over if you wanted to, but was unsure of the average times involved, and the documentation time after the stop. It still seems that many of these stops had to be for "ticky-tack" things under the guise of DUI enforcement. How long does the average stop take when you find someone is DUI, and is arrested?

[dunno]

My bitch here is more along the lines of PC/RAS.
I know the Pa. Supreme Court said it ok to do checkpoints as long as it is not random and must follow a pattern such as every 3rd vehicle or every blue vehicle. My argument is that driving a blue car is not PC/RAS that you have committed a crime or everybody driving a blue car would always get pulled over not just on checkpoint nights. PC/RAS is never established to perform the stop.

This is what happens when the government gets to decide what the government is legally permitted to do. I don't know a better way to decide or even how to change it but I do know it is bullshit regardless of the end result of the checkpoints.

This was NOT meant to be a cop bashing thread but rather a thread bashing the legality of checkpoints.

Questions for LEO's.
What is a typical pattern used?
Are you required or do you reveal the pattern if asked by a citizen?
Does your dept provide signage with an "escape" route for people to opt out?
Does your dept pursue people who take the "escape" route to opt out? If so Why?
Does your dept post the locations and times of these checkpoints in the paper?

[jw34]

Thanks for your practical knowledge. That's why I said I was only musing on the subject. I believe you can easily find things quickly to pull people over if you wanted to, but was unsure of the average times involved, and the documentation time after the stop. It still seems that many of these stops had to be for "ticky-tack" things under the guise of DUI enforcement. How long does the average stop take when you find someone is DUI, and is arrested?

Yep, all it is....is making more stops under DUI guise to make the MADD supporters happy. It could be argued that 13% of all cars on the road after midnight are DUI. Stop 100 cars, get 13 DUI. Stop 1000 cars, get 130 dui. But if they remove the percentage factor from the stats, they can print in the paper "police crack down on DUI, 130 arrests this month, up from 13 last month"

Average time for a DUI arrest? For me, about two hours. For one of our rookies, about three. But that's a start to finish (car stop to typing "clear" on the report). And depending if it's a night when the county DUI center is open, or if I have to drive them to a hospital for a blood draw.(could add another hour)
If, however, we were doing some type of special thingy like this thread is about, I suspect it would be about 30minutes from the initial traffic stop, til the driver gets dropped at the DUI center, where someone else takes over processing. Then the arresting officer just takes notes, and does all the paperwork later.

My bitch here is more along the lines of PC/RAS.
I know the Pa. Supreme Court said it ok to do checkpoints as long as it is not random and must follow a pattern such as every 3rd vehicle or every blue vehicle. My argument is that driving a blue car is not PC/RAS that you have committed a crime or everybody driving a blue car would always get pulled over not just on checkpoint nights. PC/RAS is never established to perform the stop.

This is what happens when the government gets to decide what the government is legally permitted to do. I don't know a better way to decide or even how to change it but I do know it is bullshit regardless of the end result of the checkpoints.

This was NOT meant to be a cop bashing thread but rather a thread bashing the legality of checkpoints.

Questions for LEO's.
What is a typical pattern used?
Are you required or do you reveal the pattern if asked by a citizen?
Does your dept provide signage with an "escape" route for people to opt out?
Does your dept pursue people who take the "escape" route to opt out? If so Why?
Does your dept post the locations and times of these checkpoints in the paper?

I haven't done a checkpoint in a few years, but from memory...

Typical pattern is every third car, fifth car, or tenth car, depending on flow of traffic. Typically they don't want traffic backed up or stopped any longer than if they'd been stopped for a typical traffic light. Checkpoint coordinator will adjust as needed so as not to delay traffic extraordinarily.

Don't know if required, never been asked, but I'd tell them if they did.

Yes, very specific signage locations warning of checkpoint ahead. They must leave turn-offs available to approaching traffic.

No one is ever pursued if they turn off....that doesn't meet the pursuit policy. However, typically there is one roving car on each side of a checkpoint. Their duties are to reset flares at certain warning signs every 30min, and if a car does make some type of evasive action, they may follow and watch for PC for a traffic violation or RAS of DUI. If no violation, go back, check flares, watch for other evasive maneuvers. Not every car that turns off raises interest. More like ones that come to a complete stop, back up to the last intersection, then turn off real slow.

The county posts in the paper, yes. Location is not specific, that would defeat the purpose. More like "checkpoint scheduled Friday night in northern Berks county"

[dunno]

Thanks for the replies JW34!

[Grey Bearded One]

More like ones that come to a complete stop, back up to the last intersection, then turn off real slow.

Thanks. I'm going to start doing that just to screw with you guys.

[Carson]

Plus they stole four grand to buy beer and pizza.

They must be learning from PPD Narcotics Officers.

[Carson]

....

Also, 807 of the 928 people stopped were allowed to go with simply a warning. That is about 87%. Almost 7 out of 8, with a warning. That doesn't sound like good "detective work" to me. That also makes me think that vehicles were being stopped under dubious RAS, and when nothing was found, a "warning" was issued.

And if 7 out of 8 were given tickets instead of warnings, someone else would be complaining about that.

[Deleted]

When we were involved in Operation Nighthawk it was an all roving DUI Campaign. Officers drove 1 man cars. Everything broke down into numbers and time.. they were looking for numbers and each number allotted for a certain amount of time. So a warning or a speeding ticket would account for say 15 minutes. You were expected to make 4 stops per hour. A suspension would say equal 30 minutes... a DUI 4 hours. It wasn't a quota... let's be clear on this.. it's just a gauge of what you should have been doing. No one was pressuring you or requiring anything. (I'd be straight on this if there were.) They were looking for numbers plain and simple as evident by the memo posted by the OP.

Now... onto checkpoints. Checkpoints are always posted in the paper as to location and time. There are HUGE signs reading "DUI Checkpoint Ahead" posted PRIOR TO the street BEFORE the start of the checkpoint. At the start of the checkpoint sit the emergency cars. They are only allowed to stop someone if they commit a traffic violation. Mere deviation from the checkpoint itself does not justify a stop (per Pa. Courts).

They stop 10 cars at a time... and then another 10 cars. I have not done one in years... our PD does not allow them... only roving.