Quick Question

[God's Country]

The OP might want to reconsider this as he created an infirmity for licensure when he moved out-of-state. By statute, the sheriff MUST revoke the LTCF of a non-resident who does not hold a CCW from his state of residence.

Yeah I know, but we've been over this multiple times. I think I even started a thread once on another persons behalf that was in a similar situation.

Heck we had a sheriff one time actually issue a non res ltcf to someone from MD that did not have a MD permit.

I think its a gray area. Is there a requirement for the individual to turn in their ltcf? If not then why would it not be valid? I understand if the person comes into contact with law enforcement and hands over their ltcf there is a chance it will then get revoked. But did they break a law?


If I commit a prohibitive crime today, but don't get charged for a month, and it takes the sheriff another two weeks to revoke my ltcf, am I breaking the law ifi carry during the that period? I doubt it.



ETA:

What if this person had a resident DE permit, and obtained a ltcf afterward, but allowed the DE permit to lapse prior to the ltcf renewal. Would that change things? Maybe this is where I getting confused.

I know its not apples and apples, but the circumstances are similar that someone would be carrying during an interim period. If that's prohibited conduct then I agree.

[tl_3237]

Yeah I know, but we've been over this multiple times. I think I even started a thread once on another persons behalf that was in a similar situation.

Heck we had a sheriff one time actually issue a non res ltcf to someone from MD that did not have a MD permit.

I think its a gray area. Is there a requirement for the individual to turn in their ltcf? If not then why would it not be valid? I understand if the person comes into contact with law enforcement and hands over their ltcf there is a chance it will then get revoked. But did they break a law?


If I commit a prohibitive crime today, but don't get charged for a month, and it takes the sheriff another two weeks to revoke my ltcf, am I breaking the law ifi carry during the that period? I doubt it.

I know its not apples and apples, but the circumstances are similar that someone would be carrying during an interim period. If that's prohibited conduct then I agree.

I agree that until expiry or revocation, the ex-PA resident's LTCF is valid. There is no duty on the OP's part to notify the sheriff of his address change.


Notifying the sheriff of his move is a 'two-edged' sword.

Upon becoming aware that the OP has moved out-of-state, the sheriff has an affirmative duty to either assure the OP has his new home state's license or, alternatively, revoke the LTCF. Unless the OP provides a new address, the sheriff would probably not know of the created infirmity mandating revocation. Should the sheriff be informed of the move by other means he would revoke the LTCF but have no way of notifying the OP who would, in blissful ignorance of the revocation, continue to assume licensure where none exists at potential great legal peril.


The opposite concern is that, by filing the new address to assure receipt of any sheriff inquiries/notifications, the OP effectively triggers the sheriff's affirmative duty to revoke.


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On a side note, inapplicable to the discussion at hand, the LTCF application certification does acknowledge some form of notification duty on the LTCFer -- "If I am issued a license and knowingly become ineligible to legally possess or acquire firearms, I will promptly notify the sheriff of the county in which I reside or, if I reside in a city of the first class, the chief of police of that city" which is part of the LTCF application certification - the enforcement mechanism of which is unclear.

[God's Country]

I agree that until expiry or revocation, the ex-PA resident's LTCF is valid. There is no duty on the OP's part to notify the sheriff of his address change.


Notifying the sheriff of his move is a 'two-edged' sword.

Upon becoming aware that the OP has moved out-of-state, the sheriff has an affirmative duty to either assure the OP has his new home state's license or, alternatively, revoke the LTCF. Unless the OP provides a new address, the sheriff would probably not know of the created infirmity mandating revocation. Should the sheriff be informed of the move by other means he would revoke the LTCF but have no way of notifying the OP who would, in blissful ignorance of the revocation, continue to assume licensure where none exists at potential great legal peril.


The opposite concern is that, by filing the new address to assure receipt of any sheriff inquiries/notifications, the OP effectively triggers the sheriff's affirmative duty to revoke.


-----------------------
On a side note, inapplicable to the discussion at hand, the LTCF application certification does acknowledge some form of notification duty on the LTCFer -- "If I am issued a license and knowingly become ineligible to legally possess or acquire firearms, I will promptly notify the sheriff of the county in which I reside or, if I reside in a city of the first class, the chief of police of that city" which is part of the LTCF application certification - the enforcement mechanism of which is unclear.

I see, and agree...thanks.

[Manxdriver]

I was up on Long Island yesterday for a hydrogen emergency and got back to Pa last night around 9pm. As I was approaching the bridge on 202 coming back, I got to thinking, "this bridge needs a pair of signs. One, outgoing that says, Please leave your rights on this side of the river, and one , incoming, that says, "Welcome to America, please enjoy ALL your rights" ". The voices in my head were all in agreement! That proves it was a good idea. They rarely all agree, but when they do, 'Murica!!

[Carnes]

I was up on Long Island yesterday for a hydrogen emergency and got back to Pa last night around 9pm. As I was approaching the bridge on 202 coming back, I got to thinking, "this bridge needs a pair of signs. One, outgoing that says, Please leave your rights on this side of the river, and one , incoming, that says, "Welcome to America, please enjoy ALL your rights" ". The voices in my head were all in agreement! That proves it was a good idea. They rarely all agree, but when they do, 'Murica!!

It would be nice if a free citizen could experience "all" their rights anywhere in 'murica.

[Here4now]

Upon becoming aware that the OP has moved out-of-state, the sheriff has an affirmative duty to either assure the OP has his new home state's license or, alternatively, revoke the LTCF. Unless the OP provides a new address, the sheriff would probably not know of the created infirmity mandating revocation. Should the sheriff be informed of the move by other means he would revoke the LTCF but have no way of notifying the OP who would, in blissful ignorance of the revocation, continue to assume licensure where none exists at potential great legal peril.


The opposite concern is that, by filing the new address to assure receipt of any sheriff inquiries/notifications, the OP effectively triggers the sheriff's affirmative duty to revoke.

[/SIZE]

That’s the scary part about carrying back to PA. How can I be sure the Sheriff hasn’t revoked my LTCF? My final County tax return was filed as a partial-year resident. Thus, the County Revenue Department is aware I’m no longer a PA resident. A long shot for sure, but there is that possibility that the Sheriff’s department could have that information and issued a revocation. I rarely return to PA, but when I do make the trip, I will not be carrying.

I haven’t yet applied for a DE CCW simply because of the cost, time, and the hoops one is required to jump through. Although DE is a “May Issue” state, that is not my concern.

The wait time is a minimum of 2 months and the cost is approximately $400+.

The $400 cost includes:
Permit fee
Paying for, and submitting, passport photos, background check, and fingerprints
Taking an approved training class which includes 100 rounds of live fire
Running a newspaper ad stating your intent to make an application for a CCW

There have been threads on here debating whether PA LTCF listed references are required to be PA residents – or if they are even required. In DE, there are questionnaires that must be completed and submitted by 5 references who are residents of your County.

I have no regrets about relocating to DE, but the CCW nonsense surely is a PIA. The upside is that a CCW is at least attainable.

[4runnersr5]

Here is what I was thinking:

1. My friend keeps the ltcf in pa and doesnt go to the sheriff and leaves a firearm in pa, when he comes back obtains the gun from a friend and carry while in the state.

2. Obtain a non-res permit that Pa accepts. But what address would he have to put down on the non-res application?

[Sgt.K]

Here is what I was thinking:

Gotta be careful. Thinking *can* get you in trouble...

1. My friend keeps the ltcf in pa

I think this was covered already by tl and God's Country - bad idea.

and doesnt go to the sheriff and leaves a firearm in pa

If he's not leaving it in his own PA property, then he's transferring it (legally, one hopes) to someone, meaning it's no longer his.

when he comes back obtains the gun from a friend and carry while in the state.

That would be another transfer...

2. Obtain a non-res permit that Pa accepts.

Fewer and fewer, courtesy of Kane...

But what address would he have to put down on the non-res application?

His legal one, duh. Unless you're suggesting he lie on a government form? That can bring the negative rep and/or the ban hammer. Tread lightly...

If he is so all-fired sure he wants to move to NJ, then he will need to deal with the consequences. Period. Full stop.

My 2¢

[tl_3237]

Here is what I was thinking:

1. My friend keeps the ltcf in pa and doesnt go to the sheriff and leaves a firearm in pa, when he comes back obtains the gun from a friend and carry while in the state.

2. Obtain a non-res permit that Pa accepts. But what address would he have to put down on the non-res application?

That idea, unless properly constructed, is fraught with legal risk since the transfers of possession back and forth presumably now deal with residents of differing states and would contravene Federal law (18 USC 922(a)(5)). "Friend' may be able to secure the firearms in a safe at the storage property to which only he has access but it would be treading in a 'gray area' of law.

The are many older threads on PAFOA where the tactic of using a bank's safe deposit box were addressed. It may be an option but the obvious problem is access would be limited to banking hours and what do you do if you miss the bank's close of business day.

[4runnersr5]

Yeah very tricky! Hmm. The bank option wouldn't be a bad idea. I mean he travels to the state a lot from what I under stand between girlfriend at college and family house in the Poconos.