SLCFSA Rapid Fire Rule Change

[libertyof76]

I decided to start a new thread since the old thread got a little out of hand. I know some of the members prefer to keep these discussions in house, but I feel that not enough of this discussion and other are getting out to current members (one of the things I'm aiming to change). But I am sympathetic to the idea, and in the interest of maintaining good terms I won't share everything that was said (and there was a lot). However I still have some things to say of note.

I met with the Safety Committee last week. While I appreciate their time, we spent two hours going in circles. I really felt like they were not listening to what I wanted and why I wanted it. However, at the end I feel like I did make some progress.

I understand their concerns about safety and rapid fire, but based on how they said the rule was going to be enforced and how the rule is actually written, I disagree it actually makes any thing safer. I even said they should get stopwatches and enforce it as written, but I think they know how much that would piss off the membership. Now, my rewrite would actually codify how they intend to enforce the rule, and on top that it would make it actually safe while allowing capable gun owners to practice.

I'm still planning on attending the March 19th meeting, especially to make note of the Bylaws and Constitution changes- because I think there are things in there that can help us. I will make comments on the Rapid Fire rule, and ask for anyone who supports me to contact me after the meeting.

I have short and long term goals to resolve this. Besides changing the rule to something sane, I want a lot more communication with the members. I really want the entire membership A) Informed of the rule change, and B) Surveyed on their opinion of the rule. I think that's a first step in changing it. I also want to push for cameras, because I think if we get that, we can eliminate any safety concerns.

I hope there are still current members that are interested in this, and will come out to support me. I get the sense from talking to the Safety Committee that the members who do show up are part of the problem. We really need to show up and out vote them.

[nijwnfi]

In your posts I hear a lot of "I" and "Me", seems like it's all about what YOU want. You're not going to enact change by yourself. If you desire change, you need to find as many like minded people as possible to attend that, and as many as it takes, meetings to get the job done.
I speak from experience, as we (not I) have done this and can tell you it works. I think you are on the right track, after re-reading. Don't just talk to people at meetings, talk to members you see at the range. You'll probably find more allies that way.
Also, be ready to put your money where your mouth is. You want cameras? Head the committee to get them installed. Prove your commitment to what you are doing. Earn respect with your deeds, not just talk.

[libertyof76]

In your posts I hear a lot of "I" and "Me", seems like it's all about what YOU want. You're not going to enact change by yourself. If you desire change, you need to find as many like minded people as possible to attend that, and as many as it takes, meetings to get the job done.

I'm not sure of your point- there was a lot of "I" and "Me" because I was talking about my plan. Of course I know I can't change it by myself, and I need more like minded people. That's the whole point of this thread! To find those other members.

I speak from experience, as we (not I) have done this and can tell you it works. I think you are on the right track, after re-reading. Don't just talk to people at meetings, talk to members you see at the range. You'll probably find more allies that way.

The meetings are the first step. Talking to people at the range is on the list, as well as actually asking every member what they think of the rule.

Also, be ready to put your money where your mouth is. You want cameras? Head the committee to get them installed. Prove your commitment to what you are doing. Earn respect with your deeds, not just talk.

Again, I'm not sure of your point, because I'm already doing that. I already met with the Safety Committee. For cameras, they said the the members that show up don't want it. I would guess that if we actual asked the entire membership, the answer would be different.

[nijwnfi]

Meeting with officers and members is only half of the solution. Make yourself a presence as much as possible. Help at club functions, help with maintenance, whatever you can. That's what I mean by putting your money where your mouth is.
I am not attacking what you are doing, wish more people would get involved. Running a club is a non-paying thankless job,most times, that not many want to do.

[libertyof76]

Meeting with officers and members is only half of the solution. Make yourself a presence as much as possible. Help at club functions, help with maintenance, whatever you can. That's what I mean by putting your money where your mouth is.
I am not attacking what you are doing, wish more people would get involved. Running a club is a non-paying thankless job,most times, that not many want to do.

Actually for this it is the total solution. And that's what I'm doing by putting my money where my mouth is.

Helping out is off topic for this thread (though this is just the start- I'll be helping out in other ways).

Are you a member of SLCFSA?

And FYI, I have a couple of other members outside of PAFOA that are already on board.

[nijwnfi]

best of luck to ya

[HKusp 45]

No issue with cameras, I think they would be useful in keeping people honest as long as its a stand alone system with no internet connection or outside access and it doesn't raise our dues. Don't like the idea of people being able to hack in privacy and all that good stuff.

[c45man]

I'm not sure of your point- there was a lot of "I" and "Me" because I was talking about my plan. Of course I know I can't change it by myself, and I need more like minded people. That's the whole point of this thread! To find those other members.


The meetings are the first step. Talking to people at the range is on the list, as well as actually asking every member what they think of the rule.


Again, I'm not sure of your point, because I'm already doing that. I already met with the Safety Committee. For cameras, they said the the members that show up don't want it. I would guess that if we actual asked the entire membership, the answer would be different.

What makes you believe that the membership as a hole would vote for cameras? Or more precise, what makes you believe that the non meeting attending members have a different mindset that those who do attend meetings? I am just asking, you apparently know something about the attitudes of SLCFSA members that I, no doubt, are not aware of. Me, I don't attend meeting because of the distance, but I would make it a point to attend a meeting if and when a vote is taken on the subject, and my vote would be in the negative.

[libertyof76]

No issue with cameras, I think they would be useful in keeping people honest as long as its a stand alone system with no internet connection or outside access and it doesn't raise our dues. Don't like the idea of people being able to hack in privacy and all that good stuff.

Oh agreed. We would have to have a system that would be secure both from external and internal attacks. Access would be controlled and logged.

Given that I'm an IT with security knowledge, I have some good ideas on how to implement this.

What makes you believe that the membership as a hole would vote for cameras? Or more precise, what makes you believe that the non meeting attending members have a different mindset that those who do attend meetings?

I don't have any hard facts, but based on conversations with the board and other members, I feel like its something that they would be in for of. Regardless of how I feel, I'd like to actually find out. I'm happy to be wrong about their attitudes.

I am just asking, you apparently know something about the attitudes of SLCFSA members that I, no doubt, are not aware of. Me, I don't attend meeting because of the distance, but I would make it a point to attend a meeting if and when a vote is taken on the subject, and my vote would be in the negative.

Why? What is wrong with having video to go back to for when members are being unsafe, or god-forbid a round leaves the range?

I see no good arguments against having cameras, so I'm open to hearing those.

[c45man]

How many cameras would it take on 93 acres to record the information and provide the kind of security the supporters of such implementation would expect. No doubt, not enough film collectors. If I wanted to shoot in a fishbowl, I would frequent an indoor range.