SLCFSA Rapid Fire Rule Change

[libertyof76]

Not withstanding low cost, I do not believe that the membership is going to tolerate being under surveillance while shooting at our facility. Shooters, by the suspicious nature, tend to be a bit paranoid without being recorded while pulling a trigger. They will believe, and no one is going to convince them differently, that not only are their actions under camera scrutiny, but their conversations are being recorded as well. We both know the ugly legal ramifications of recording private conversations. That won't matter, no amount of convincing will change some of their minds that such voices are not being recorded. In other words, I doubt this surveillance idea is going to pass general membership.

I guess we will see. Given that this is other gun owners who care about safety and privacy, I think I'll be able to convince them. Remember, access will be tightly guarded and all access will be logged. They will not be under scrutiny. There may or may not be audio (and there are no ugly legal ramifications of recording private conversations if notice is given anyway).

I'm sures some will be stubborn and will not listen to reason. But I think if we talk to the ENTIRE membership, a majority will be convinced once they realize the benefits.

I mean, its certainly better than being restricted on how they shoot. I think that is more important to them anyway.

[libertyof76]

I attended the meeting last night with the intent of bringing up changing the rule, but the Constitution and Bylaws changes took up the entire night. Honestly that's more important right now, and some of the changes I wanted to propose can be made during these changes- such as giving notice about rule changes.

I highly encourage all members to come out at the April meeting to discuss this changes. For the most part they are good, but there are changes I would like to add. You will need your membership card to vote.

In May will probably be when I bring up changing the rapid fire rule.

[range saftey officer]

I guess we will see. Given that this is other gun owners who care about safety and privacy, I think I'll be able to convince them. Remember, access will be tightly guarded and all access will be logged. They will not be under scrutiny. There may or may not be audio (and there are no ugly legal ramifications of recording private conversations if notice is given anyway).

I'm sures some will be stubborn and will not listen to reason. But I think if we talk to the ENTIRE membership, a majority will be convinced once they realize the benefits.

I mean, its certainly better than being restricted on how they shoot. I think that is more important to them anyway.

You must like to hear your self talk....You called me a fan of Obama, bloomberg and so on and you are talking about cameras to install what does that sound like? Big brother is watching enough...You never show at meetings. You say you have a make a wish child that is why you don't attend meetings. Excuses are like assholes everybody has one. I doubt your b.s. I for one have a wish and that is for you to stop with your trash talk.... I think you are full of yourself and I think a lot of others feel the same way....I know who you are and I do security......If you are man enough go to a meeting and talk to the club instead of being a keyboard commando....People that complain the most do the least....You don't show for meetings or work on the range or anything else we do but you will bitch if things are not done your way ...Be a man and step up and help in stead of bitching. I am sick of this BULLSHIT............AND THAT IS ALL......

[sprrdhawk44]

I'm so happy we don't have this bullshit at my club.

[range saftey officer]

I'm so happy we don't have this bullshit at my club.

Sorry for my temper we don't have problems at our club either but liberty of 76 likes to piss people off. He talks b.s and does nothing. This guy does not get it...and he keeps it up. We work hard to have a safe and enjoyable club for everyone including him. Our club has come along way and we are trying very hard to make it safer for everyone. Our officers have talked to him one on one and he still does not get it. I have had it with reading his garbage and that is it. It's me not our club that is upset with this guy. I have no time for idiots who think the world should cater to them and to hell with others....Safety comes first, last, and always for every sportsman as it should. If he had any sense he would realize that, maybe he likes to hear him self talk who knows or cares? I don't, by the way we have a very nice club and anybody who has been there has enjoyed our functions. We are not perfect but we do listen and try to make things better that is why we have monthly meetings and send out news letters if they don't show for a meeting then they don't know what is going on. A news letter gives a condensed break down of the events and changes if any of the rules. I mean no disrespect to anyone but enough is enough.....

[libertyof76]

You must like to hear your self talk....You called me a fan of Obama, bloomberg and so on

I never called you any such thing. I said the idea of limiting how gun owners shoot is the same idea as limiting magazine counts that Bloomberg peddles. We all know how ridiculous that is, and I find this restriction just as ridiculous. It has no provisions for those who can shoot properly. It punishes the many because of the few. I find that unacceptable.

and you are talking about cameras to install what does that sound like? Big brother is watching enough...

Its a different situation when the government does it than when private parties do it. For starters, I can choose not to go to a place that has cameras. Second, there are better controls when a private party violates privacy. And in this case, the protections will be very tight. I understand people's concern- but the benefit of being able to find out who is really damaging the ranges and being unsafe is worth it, as opposed to a rule which does not do that.

You never show at meetings. You say you have a make a wish child that is why you don't attend meetings. Excuses are like assholes everybody has one. I doubt your b.s.

Did you not read the last post before yours? I was at the meeting. Were you there? Please do not make accusations that are untrue. Barring unforeseen issues, I will be at every meeting as long as I'm a member.

And I'm sorry you are so heartless and do not believe me. I spent Thanksgiving in a children's hospital watching my son have massive seizures and being told by doctors that he might not make it through the night. My wish is that my son was normal but we are deal with the hand we are dealt.

I for one have a wish and that is for you to stop with your trash talk.... I think you are full of yourself and I think a lot of others feel the same way....I know who you are and I do security......If you are man enough go to a meeting and talk to the club instead of being a keyboard commando....People that complain the most do the least....You don't show for meetings or work on the range or anything else we do but you will bitch if things are not done your way ...Be a man and step up and help in stead of bitching. I am sick of this BULLSHIT............AND THAT IS ALL......

As I stated above, I was at a meeting. I found the Constitutional and Bylaw changes more important at this meeting and I felt that prolonging the meeting was unproductive. I won't respond to insults- I say lets have a fair, open, honest debate and we'll see what happens. I don't particularly care what other people think of me- I just want to do what is right.

I'm sorry you are so angry. I hope you can calm down and we can figure out a solution for everybody.

[libertyof76]

Sorry for my temper we don't have problems at our club either but liberty of 76 likes to piss people off.

I'm sorry that trying to do what is right pisses people off, but I do not like pisses people off. If people would work with me instead of insulting me they would probably be less pissed off.

He talks b.s and does nothing. This guy does not get it...and he keeps it up. We work hard to have a safe and enjoyable club for everyone including him. Our club has come along way and we are trying very hard to make it safer for everyone.

I'm sure you are, but this rule does not do much to make it safer, but it does prevent responsible gun owners from practicing.

Our officers have talked to him one on one and he still does not get it.

Nobody has talked to me one on one. I met the safety committee once, and I found them hostile and unreceptive. I tried to explain my position, but I felt they had made up their mind and would not listen. Maybe that's incorrect, but that was how I interpreted the meeting. Had they been willing to work with me I would not be taking it to the general membership. I totally get the argument, I just disagree.

I have had it with reading his garbage and that is it. It's me not our club that is upset with this guy. I have no time for idiots who think the world should cater to them and to hell with others....Safety comes first, last, and always for every sportsman as it should. If he had any sense he would realize that, maybe he likes to hear him self talk who knows or cares?

Thank you for insinuating that I don't care about safety. Except that is totally backwards. I care DEEPLY about safety, and that is why I oppose this rule. I believe it actually prevents a safe gun range- or at best is irrelevant to having a safe gun range- but ALSO impedes responsible gun owners.

In fact, the rule that I proposed to the safety committee is almost EXACTLY how they will enforce the current rule. Because they aren't going to enforce as written. Why? Because they know that there are responsible gun owners out there, and that if they did enforce it as written- with stopwatches- they would have 1000 members show up at the meeting pissed off demanding it changed.

I don't, by the way we have a very nice club and anybody who has been there has enjoyed our functions. We are not perfect but we do listen and try to make things better that is why we have monthly meetings and send out news letters if they don't show for a meeting then they don't know what is going on. A news letter gives a condensed break down of the events and changes if any of the rules. I mean no disrespect to anyone but enough is enough.....

The newsletter is helpful, but the members need more info. We need the minutes and the agendas posted on the website. We need proposed rule changes emailed and posted BEFORE they are voted on. We need a lot better communication- but honestly it is better than it used to be.

I think we have the same goals- a safe and well run club. In fact, we probably want the same rule. But we just disagree how to do it a little bit. I hope we can come together and dispense with this animosity and actually get something better going.

[MEK1911]

You must like to hear your self talk....You called me a fan of Obama, bloomberg and so on and you are talking about cameras to install what does that sound like? Big brother is watching enough...You never show at meetings. You say you have a make a wish child that is why you don't attend meetings. Excuses are like assholes everybody has one. I doubt your b.s. I for one have a wish and that is for you to stop with your trash talk.... I think you are full of yourself and I think a lot of others feel the same way....I know who you are and I do security......If you are man enough go to a meeting and talk to the club instead of being a keyboard commando....People that complain the most do the least....You don't show for meetings or work on the range or anything else we do but you will bitch if things are not done your way ...Be a man and step up and help in stead of bitching. I am sick of this BULLSHIT............AND THAT IS ALL......

you crossed the line! your a f------- a------ for talking shit on someone's kid. As far as I know I have never met either one of you and I am no longer a member so its no difference to me what happens there but your a complete ass .making a joke over someone's kid with special needs WTF??? did I mention that you are a a------?

[range saftey officer]

you crossed the line! your a fucking asshole for talking shit on someone's kid. As far as I know I have never met either one of you and I am no longer a member so its no difference to me what happens there but your a complete ass .making a joke over someone's kid with special needs WTF??? did I mention that you are a asshole?

First of all I apologize if I stepped over the line. I did not mean to offend anybody I did lose my temper a bit....I was not talking shit on some ones kid in fact I understand were he is coming from. My family too has a make a wish kid but we don't use him for any excuse for not doing anything i.e. showing up for meetings to voice opinions for something I think is important such as the rules and going on and on.[ I know how truthful people are.] I don't know anything about this guy but he just bent me out of shape. How do I know if he is telling the truth or not. I will tell you the truth like it or not but it is the truth. As for being a fucking asshole well I been called worse. Again I apologize if I crossed the line. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong..

[libertyof76]

My family too has a make a wish kid but we don't use him for any excuse for not doing anything i.e. showing up for meetings to voice opinions for something I think is important such as the rules and going on and on.[ I know how truthful people are.].

Except A) I wasn't using it as an excuse. It was an explanation. People like you were attacking me for not showing up. I explained why it was difficult to show up. B) I may have actually showed up for the discussion, had I known it was going on. That's half the problem-I had no idea the discussion was taking place until months after the fact. Not everybody can attend the meetings, and you cannot fault people for not being able to attend just because you can. I would never fault somebody for not showing up because I do not know their personal lives. C) I DID show up to a meeting with the intent on discussing it. So you have no basis for attacking me any more.