Gun reviews by PA People

**luckyned7** · February 2nd, 2007, 11:32 PM

S! all

I'd like to suggest this subject for a small category on this wonderful website where we can read fellow PA shooter's opinions on a make and model..pre road trip instead of reading hipe from the gun writers. Maybe set some guide lines so we don't get off track on praising our new firearm..cause we tend to like 'em if we bought 'em..don't we?

Here would be my example:

Pistol : S&W 329PD 4" 44 Magnum
Purchased new from **** (not sure if allowed)for 636.oo
First impression: Sweet!!!! Why: I love light guns in LG calibers
Fit and Fin: Sweet. Why: I love.. ah/err.. appears tight with no strange things sticking out.
Function-Con: (1) Hmm.. Some customer tweaking neccessary. Titanium cylinder has some strange learning curve compared to ol' fashion 44 mags. Big caliber DIS-ables my samples internal safety-BAD! S&W will repair at no-charge to include shipping labels. (This IS hearsay) But I opted for removal by myself of said safety feature with NO said skill of revolver gunsmithing)(BTW-stupid engineering of said safety..no thought to stopping it from enguaging without said key)
(2) Kicks like a mule a will increase overall cartridge length unless special attention is paid to crimp.
(3) Original wooden grips are 'sweet' but 2nd set of Hogue grips(supplied) are sweeter for shooting. You can purchase grips that cover backstrap to save your arse but I found the second supplied Hogues fit me the best! I'm looking to kill big things that are about to kill me...and I'll have my pistol with me!
(4) Be advised: You shall not clean in the same manner as you might..and you will NOT remove the little dot that forms on the side of the cylinder on each chamber..go with it!
(5) You will find that (she)(329PD)(said S&W revolver) will cause you to scratch your head if you reload..as per what (she) wants to shoot and EXTRACT nicely and I don't have all the answers as per why.
PRO's: (1) I don't know how to express my graditude or how to spell my Xcitement! I thoght I'd be dead befrore some arms company would give me this power in this weighted package!
(2) It can be a 1 hole shooter with a 300grain plinker,
(3) It can rock your world and anything else in short order and the Hi-Vis sight really works out well.
Summary: Recommend to those that need light-POWER. S&W came through where others didn't dare. The internal safety may get you killed. Time will tell on the life span of the super-light-magnum..I'm assuming that they didn't plan on us using it...but I'll buy another when this one dies. Thanks ahead~ Ned. (Tired of typing)

**Emptymag** · February 2nd, 2007, 11:55 PM

While it's a great idea (and I thought I saw a post like this here before), the difficult part is getting a "review" that is actually helpful and not a source of a heated debate about the firearm being reviewed.
I mean, just type the letters G-L-O-C-K and you're going to start something that goes on and on like a highway with no rest stops when you gotta pee! (yeah, pee sounds a bit "girly")

Only way I can see it being useful is if it were limited to "your review" only. End of story. No responses saying you are "wrong". No adding to it, just an individual's review of a firearm - nothing more.
I think these personal accounts would be worth reading!

**luckyned7** · February 3rd, 2007, 12:35 AM

Hee hee hee.. I totally agree and look forward to a much more disaplined(daulp) reponse than my tyraid. I couldn't do a review of my own new purchase if you paid me..that's ME!

But I would love to come here and do research of firearms that I'm looking at..from locals that can do a review! Love~ Ned

**TonyF** · February 3rd, 2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Emptymag

While it's a great idea (and I thought I saw a post like this here before), the difficult part is getting a "review" that is actually helpful and not a source of a heated debate about the firearm being reviewed.

I was thinking of starting a thread relating to this narrow aspect of lucky's topic. Allot of heated arguments ensue over what is a *good* gun and what is not.

My experience in the firearms training industry gives me an opportunity to see a wide array of makes, models and calibers operating under conditions and with round counts that I'd estimate probably 90% of gun owners will never, ever subject their firearms to in the entire time frame of ownership. In that regard, most *used* firearms are literally brand new (with < than 100 rounds fired).

Fit and feel is subjective and by and large has mostly to do with the size and shape of the shooters hand. And some manufacturers take ergonomics into account and some don't.

Most rifle stocks are WAY too long for most people.

Glocks break no matter what anyone says otherwise. I can't begin to tell you how many I've seen first hand over the years yet IMO it's still an excellent choice and an extremely good value.

1911's ............ where do I begin? I've seen everything from $2000 Les Baers break and $3500 Wilson's jam to a fellow with a home gunsmithed *brand X* frame and a *brand Y* slide trying to shoot Wolf ammo with frequent malfunctions and being so stubborn that it wasn't until after the lunch break on TD 2 that he finally switched to a G30 for the remainder of the class. And I've seen time and time again people not maintaining their 1911's in terms of lube and spring replacement.

Kimber and MIM parts. Firstly, Kimber isn't the only firearms manufacturer using MIM parts but if someone mentions Kimber / MIM with a negative connotation, you'll read someone reply with "I have three Kimbers and none of the MIM parts have ever failed". I can believe that but of those three Kimbers, what are their respective round counts?

I own a Kimber Warrior that I haven't fired yet. I have a friend who owns three Kimbers with moderate to high round counts (2000 - 10000) and none of the MIM parts on his pistols have failed. My best guess is that if the MIM parts don't fail within the first 1000 rounds they are probably going to last as long as a forged part.

The point to this diatribe is that IMO these arguments over *good vs. bad* guns have to do with two primary issues.

1. The male ego. We just will not tolerate someone telling us that *our* choice has some type of *flaw*. You might as well have told us our kids are ugly (them's fightin' words). What is happening here is that we tend to invest *ourselves* in our choices and if we come upon a negative comment, we take offense not so much about the firearm, but that our honor, intelligence or manhood has been challenged or called into question.

2. Statistically insginificant sampling. By this I mean someone owns one glock, or one SIG, or one 1911 and has never had a jam in relatively moderate round count of 1000 rounds. What does that mean? It means that *one* example of a glock, SIG or 1911 has run 1000 cycles without a failure. 1000 rounds is a decent number to start feeling confident about *a* particular firearm. However, its still only *one* example of the breed.

The bottom line is how does a given firearm perform in quantity, under rigorous field conditions and with high round counts? Where do we find this data?

Large LE agencies. Lots of the same firerarm being used. Problem here is low round counts.

The military. This can be two sided. State side, in peace time, weapons are not maintained very well (whether they need it or not). I'm referring here to armorer repairs and not routine maintenance by soldiers. What little live fire training most infantry soldiers are given, one often finds well worn rifles with issues. OTOH, in a theater of war, keeping a weapon running goes without saying.

I have a friend whose son has just deployed to Iraq with a rifle exhibiting extraction problems while state side and he could not get his units armorer to repair it because *it wasn't scheduled for parts replacement*. Point here is parts wear and need to be replaced. This shouldn't be an indictment against a Colt M4 or FN M16, its an example of the failings of a huge bureaucracy.

Private sector training industry. IMHO this is the best source of data. Wide array of makes, models and calibers, accessories, typical field conditions, and rather high round counts (700 - 1200) over relatively short durations (2 - 5 days). This is the best opportunity to determine the suitability of both a brand (because you'll likely see more than one in a given class) *and* a specific firearm in terms of reliability and durability.

My point is to bear in mind that in regard to our choice(s) of firearms, our reputations should not hang in the balance.

**JustinM** · February 3rd, 2007, 11:19 AM

[QUOTE=TonyF;26591]My best guess is that if the MIM parts don't fail within the first 1000 rounds they are probably going to last as long as a forged part.

OT: When I worked at Top Glock, a guy there had a Kimber that he had out of his holster. One of the MIM parts ( I don't know 1911's so I don't know the part) broke, and the hammer fell, sending a .45 through the wall of my cubicle, (I was in my chair) under my legs, ricocheting off the ground, through the other wall of my cubicle, and into the wall finally. Nobody was hurt, but because he had to have his gun out for some unknown reason, we weren't allowed to carry to work anymore.