My FFL- "ATF audit last week; you must bring an upper or its a pistol" 2/12/15

[vinlander]

Maybe have the FFL send the lower back, rather than take possession of it and pay what-ever inconvenience fee they may charge you? Ask a few other FFLs if they got the same memo.

Have you transferred a lower through this FFL before as a receiver, and not a pistol?

[Lougotzz]

Gunlawyer how can this be stopped? This is not just guns. Government officials keep changing the rules as they go. This is very bad IMHO for the rule of law. It seems to be getting worse.

I know this nation seems to be out of control but are we at the point of no return with this. I ask you from what you observe first hand in the legal field and how judges are ruling in court.

[WCMG]

...He said the ATF audited him last week, and that he now has to 'register' all lowers as pistols...

Just curious: Do you mean on question 18 of the 4473 or he needs to file a PSP Application/Record of sale? Or both?

[Bang]

Do I have this correct?

1-If I purchase a complete rifle from an FFL, that lower can never be used under a pistol upper.

2-I am better off purchasing only a lower receiver as an "other" or even a "pistol" if I want to use the lower under both rifle and pistol uppers.

3- Buying a used AR or modular-type firearm is legally dangerous, because I would have no way of knowing in what category the lower started out.

4- I need a shrink to settle down my pissed-off feelings over these nonsensical, accomplish-nothing-but-criminalize laws.

[InfiniteMotors]

Have you transferred a lower through this FFL before as a receiver, and not a pistol?

I've only used this FFL for actual pistols so far, so no info there. Based on the way he gave me this info without me asking, however, I am very confident that we can assume he has always previously used "other".

Just curious: Do you mean on question 18 of the 4473 or he needs to file a PSP Application/Record of sale? Or both?

I did not ask that specific question, but will update after I pick it up next week.

Do I have this correct?

1-If I purchase a complete rifle from an FFL, that lower can never be used under a pistol upper.

2-I am better off purchasing only a lower receiver as an "other" or even a "pistol" if I want to use the lower under both rifle and pistol uppers.

3- Buying a used AR or modular-type firearm is legally dangerous, because I would have no way of knowing in what category the lower started out.

4- I need a shrink to settle down my pissed-off feelings over these nonsensical, accomplish-nothing-but-criminalize laws.

I'll do my best here but will humbly allow more experienced members to correct me-

1- Yes. If purchased new as a rifle, it cannot be built as a pistol. It can still be SBR'd of course.

2- Yes. Pistol only precludes us from selling to another PA resident face-to-face without using an FFL. It does not stop us from legally building the lower into a pistol OR rifle.

3- Yes. The only way to know for sure that a lower has never been a rifle is to buy it brand new yourself. *does anyone know of a way to search for this info?*

4- I'm glad im not the only one. I have achieved the serenity to allow a lot of bad things happen around me, but criminalizing me is absolutely unacceptable. If you're taking the time to read this thread, you and I have both accepted to spend our precious time, effort, and even money just to make sure we never break the law. Staying legal is a full time hobby. Anyone so genuinely ambivalent should never, ever, ever be criminalized.

[Emptymag]

You do what you want, but I'd shop at Dick's Sporting Goods and Field & Stream on the same day before I'd use that particular FFL for that transfer.

Uh-uh. Nope. No effin' way.

[ckellyme3]

You do what you want, but I'd shop at Dick's Sporting Goods and Field & Stream on the same day before I'd use that particular FFL for that transfer.

Uh-uh. Nope. No effin' way.

No way emptymag?

[Emptymag]

Fuckin' A.

I would NOT play the games this FFL is suggesting. This paperwork is serious shit. I'm not about to submit to some crazy nonsense because he sez "the ATF sez I gotta do this".

Find another FFL.

[GunLawyer001]

Fuckin' A.

I would NOT play the games this FFL is suggesting. This paperwork is serious shit. I'm not about to submit to some crazy nonsense because he sez "the ATF sez I gotta do this".

Find another FFL.

The consumer isn't going to be on the hook here, unless his paperwork says it was a complete rifle and his plan was to make a pistol, or switch back and forth.

I wouldn't blame the FFL so much. It's certainly possible that the ATF told him this, and you can hardly use common sense to evaluate a system of laws that calls a silencer a "firearm", and treats the mere possession of daddy's WW II bringback up in the attic worse than if you beat up the schoolteacher next door. Pennsylvanians routinely face a 5-year mandatory sentence if they take their PA-licensed car and PA-licensed gun through NJ, because the driver's license is recognized but not the LTCF; is any of that intuitively obvious?

Firearm laws don't inherently make sense, because they focus on the tools, and not on the criminals, and because so many of the laws are arbitrary & capricious. Why should a 10 round mag be illegal in NY, or a 30 round mag be illegal in NJ, but not in most states?

If we disregarded every ATF position that made no sense or ran contrary to the statutes, we'd be in worse trouble than we already are in an industry that's despised by the elites and the media. The best solution is for the FFL to demand the advice in writing, and escalate through ATF, starting with the field office. Because there's other written guidance that conflicts with this, and at the end of the day, if anyone's going to get screwed over bad advice, it will be the FFL.

[Emptymag]

I'd still use someone else.