Josh Prince to take on Ceasefire 2/15 11:30am NBC 10

**phillyd2** · February 16th, 2015, 08:31 PM

My take is if the courts rule it failed the Single Subject Law test then yes, it will be overturned and will have to be passed on its own. I'm guessing it will again pass but now we have the possibility of a veto.

**GunLawyer001** · February 16th, 2015, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by mikelets456

I'm lost... Are you saying there's a good chance that sb80 will be overturned? If so, is there anything that can be done to stop it?

An argument could be made that "amending the crimes code" is a single subject.

A judge could go either way on this. The law does cover two different topics within the crimes code.

Either way, we now are stuck with governor Wolf, and we lack the supermajority we'd need to override his inevitable veto of ANY pro-gun bill.

I argued for different priorities while this was happening, but the people with influence were hot for the bags of money they saw for the lawyers, and the end result, given the courts we have, will likely be that the law will be struck down, the ceasefire loonies will claim a victory on the merits, and we won't have the ability to strike down laws that nobody ever got prosecuted for unless they demanded that they be cited. And we also won't have any remedy for people with old 302's, which one of the same people with influence managed to lose for us in 2013.

At some point, any sane person has to look at the captain of the team, and the key players, and see if they're still winning games, or losing games that should have been won. Lately, we're losing games that we could have won.

**mikelets456** · February 16th, 2015, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by phillyd2

My take is if the courts rule it failed the Single Subject Law test then yes, it will be overturned and will have to be passed on its own. I'm guessing it will again pass but now we have the possibility of a veto.

Can the house over ride a governor veto? My guess, since this is a bill that benefits "the people" it will be overturned. But we'll see...

**phillyd2** · February 16th, 2015, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by mikelets456

Can the house over ride a governor veto? My guess, since this is a bill that benefits "the people" it will be overturned. But we'll see...

if I remember both houses needs to vote to override - we just don't have the numbers if its a party line vote.

**mikelets456** · February 17th, 2015, 10:06 AM

I "love" how these progressives cry "foul play" and determine that the exact wording in the PA Constitution was not followed, therefore it's unconstitutional. Yet, the following wording, that is simple and precise in the PA constitution, is open for change according to them:

§ 21. Right to bear arms.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of
themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

**theshadow** · February 17th, 2015, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by mikelets456

I "love" how these progressives cry "foul play" and determine that the exact wording in the PA Constitution was not followed, therefore it's unconstitutional. Yet, the following wording, that is simple and precise in the PA constitution, is open for change according to them:

The other day I was in an email exchange with the owner/ maintainer of a Pro 2A mailing list. He stated that some of his friends are liberals (traditional) and they are more Jeffersonian liberals where it's more live and let live, and they hate when people call themselves liberal who are pro big government and pro restricting rights. His friends often ask him to please call these other folks 'Progressives', because they are not true liberals.

I got to thinking about this over the weekend. They're not progressive either. How can Restricting Civil rights, over regulating free markets, reducing freedom, muzzling free speech in the name of Political Correctness and unpopularity of opinion and increasing government be considered progressive? These are the ideals we revolted against in the 1700's, so since they are returning to old failed policies, aren't they regressives rather than progressive? Maybe we SHOULD start calling them by their true label.

**jerkin** · February 17th, 2015, 11:22 AM

I hope someone is making a list of similar laws (especially liberal leaning ones) that were passed in the same way so that we can show this has been done before and if this law is tossed on unconstitutional grounds then we need to do the same for this one and this one and this one.......

**libertyof76** · February 17th, 2015, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by ideaman

"Standing." This bewilders me. I can understand the use of "standing", if someone or organization say they are going to do this or that and you have to obey it. But nothing was done. But a law??? That guarantees numerous people will be affected and victimized. The law is allowing injury to be caused first before they do anything.

Standing is used by the courts to avoid doing their job. Its good in theory (at least superficially)- we don't want to overload the courts with cases where nobody was harmed- but in practice the courts use it as an excuse to avoid ruling on an issue.

In a just world, where rights and illegal laws are concerned, every citizen has standing to challenge a law.

**libertyof76** · February 17th, 2015, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by GunLawyer001

An argument could be made that "amending the crimes code" is a single subject.

A judge could go either way on this. The law does cover two different topics within the crimes code.

Either way, we now are stuck with governor Wolf, and we lack the supermajority we'd need to override his inevitable veto of ANY pro-gun bill.

I argued for different priorities while this was happening, but the people with influence were hot for the bags of money they saw for the lawyers, and the end result, given the courts we have, will likely be that the law will be struck down, the ceasefire loonies will claim a victory on the merits, and we won't have the ability to strike down laws that nobody ever got prosecuted for unless they demanded that they be cited. And we also won't have any remedy for people with old 302's, which one of the same people with influence managed to lose for us in 2013.

At some point, any sane person has to look at the captain of the team, and the key players, and see if they're still winning games, or losing games that should have been won. Lately, we're losing games that we could have won.

Its funny- we have the laziest legislature this side of the nut house. They finally get off their butts and pass a pro-gun bill. I would have wished for a stronger bill, but this is what we got. And yet they STILL managed to screw it up. Why the hell did the Republicans even let this be an issue? They controlled all both houses and the governor's office. They chose what gets debated. Just pass the damn law without attaching it to something else.

So frustrating.

**JenniferG** · February 17th, 2015, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by libertyof76

Its funny- we have the laziest legislature this side of the nut house. They finally get off their butts and pass a pro-gun bill. I would have wished for a stronger bill, but this is what we got. And yet they STILL managed to screw it up. Why the hell did the Republicans even let this be an issue? They controlled all both houses and the governor's office. They chose what gets debated. Just pass the damn law without attaching it to something else.

So frustrating.

It didn't matter which way this bill was passed you know that frog faced hag and the leftist scum with their Bloomberg money backing were going to challenge the law. This argument they have come up with is specious at best but they'll judge shop and make sure they have Vladimir Ilych Lenin himself sitting at the bench.