SB 737 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

[WhiteFeather]

Been picking up a few more co sponsors to HB 366

list of current co-sponsors names HERE

https://foac-pac.org/Proposed-Pennsy.../State-Law/675



please contact members of Game & Fish committee that the best way to get some action on HB 366


see OP

[WhiteFeather]

Correction (Note our research for the legality of semi-auto rifles was conducted in 2012-2013 time period) in May-June 2015 all 50 states were recheck hence discover of error for Ohio.

Really surprised someone on PAFOA didn't catch this when double checking info posted about HB 366 for accuracy of the statement in 48 of 50 state its legal to hunt with a semi-auto rifle for some species of game animal

In 2014 it was legal in Ohio to hunt with rifles (including semi-auto rifles) for deer with Legal Straight-Walled Cartridge Rifles for Ohio Deer Hunting

Deer hunters are not allowed to load rifles and shotguns with more than three shells in the chamber and magazine combined.

\/see link\/
http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/portals/...Cartridges.pdf

Couldn't find any legal requirement to require a physical plug to limit capacity, honor system to follow the hunting regulations like many states have

OHIO Allowable Hunting Equipment

White-Tailed Deer

Gun Season & Youth Gun Season

Shotgun: 10 gauge or smaller shotgun using one ball or one rifled slug per barrel (rifled shotgun barrels are permitted when using shotgun slug ammunition).

Handgun: 5-inch minimum length barrel, using straight-walled cartridges .357 caliber or larger

Straight-walled cartridge rifles in the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110, and .500 Smith & Wesson. Shotguns and straight-walled cartridge rifles can be loaded with no more than three shells in the chamber and magazine combined.



Allowable Hunting Equipment

Coyote, Feral swine, Groundhog, Fox, Raccoon, Skunk, Opossum, Weasel, Squirrel, Cottontail Rabbit, Ring-Necked Pheasant, Chukar, Ruffed Grouse, Bobwhite Quail, & Crow

Handgun: any caliber

Rifle: Any caliber; however, it shall be unlawful for any person to hunt or take a coyote or feral swine during the youth deer gun season or the deer gun season without using a hunting implement legal for taking deer.

Shotgun: 10 gauge or smaller; however, during any deer firearm season no shot larger than number 4 may be used.
http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-...ting-equipment

[WhiteFeather]

Doing some additional research.... in 49 states its now legal to hunt with a semi-auto rifle for some specie of game. (Not 48 as reported from 2012 research finding)

Delaware – http://www.dnrec.delaware.gov/fw/hun.../wildlife.aspx
IT’S ILLEGAL to hunt with a center fire rifle for anything except groundhogs, foxes and coyotes in Delaware.

In Delaware you can still hunt for squirrels in some parts of the state with a semi-auto rimfire rifle without any magazine capacity.
there is no prohibition in the law, its up to Delaware Division of Fish and Wildlife agency to restrict or limit the use of what rifle to hunt with.

Not so in PA

For the official record:
That leaves PA the ONLY remaining state in the entire country where the legislature specifically prohibits (PGC) you from NOT hunting with a semi-auto rifle for anything in PA.

PA GENERAL HUNTING REGULATIONS – page 17 -18
Unlawful Firearms & Devices: 1) Automatic and semi-automatic (autoloading) rifles and handguns; 2) air- or gas-operated rifles and handguns.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/pgc/...igest1516/#/18

See OP and contact the Reps. that is what is needed to move HB 366

[WhiteFeather]

FYI movement even with a glacier can happen when enough people contact the Reps

Friday, June 12, 2015 2015-2016 Regular Session


Updates for: HB223 and HB366


Upcoming Meetings

GAME AND FISHERIES (H)

06/15/2015
11:00 AM
Public hearing on HB 223, and HB 366.
Room G50
Irvis Office

We will be there on Monday June 15 doing our part help to make the case for Freedom of choice



REALLY 49 states is legal to hunt with a semi-auto rifle for some game specie, except for PA?

[gun-bunny]

Is Irvis Office the building located on Elmerton Ave, Hbg?

Just looked it up- the South Office Building at the capitol complex. Funny, I never heard it called that before, we just called it the SOB when I worked there for a brief period of time so many years ago.

[Yellowfin]

When was this hearing made known? I can't get off from work with this short of notice Do they purposefully do this stuff during the work week so that nobody other than retirees, unemployed, self employed, and those paid to do it can attend? Then they say "Well, we haven't heard from anyone, nobody's interested."

Can we send written statements to be read aloud in our absence? And can someone record this so we can hold them to it for a change?

[Gunsnwater]

I need one week min. to get vacation day put in.

[Yellowfin]

Here is the statement I prepared. I emailed it, though wonder if it will be considered or read as intended. It is here though for anyone who would wish to email something similar or go there and speak.
--------

I would like to take the time to speak in favor of a bill currently under consideration in your committee. I'm a recent transplant to Pennsylvania, my wife and I moved here a little over three years ago now. I have been an active outdoorsman since age 4 or 5, build and customize my own rifles, and hand load ammunition for my own use in competition, training, recreational shooting, hunting, and defense. In the recent past I have worked in sporting goods and gun sales in Pennsylvania, am an active member of the New Holland Rifle and Pistol Club, United States Practical Shooting Association, the National Rifle Association, and the Federalist Society. In this specific capacity I do not officially speak on behalf of any of the organizations with which I am affiliated, but rather as a consumer, engaged cititzen, practitioner of a skilled pasttime and sports, a member of the vast community of those of the same, and activist for expansion of liberty and civil rights. Though not at their specific behest or endorsement, it would be reasonable to say that the statements I give will concur in large part with like minded individuals of the same activities and affiliations as myself, and I would encourage you to speak with as many of them personally as you can.

Having lived in 3 other states previously has shown me a wide spectrum of opportunities to enjoy shooting, hunting and outdoor sports, from total freedom and opportunity to almost complete lack thereof. Rightly or wrongly, the experience is to varying degrees flavored by the legal, regulatory, and political climate of the state and locality in question. In many respects, Pennsylvania does much better than many of its neighboring states in being friendly and accommodating, rather than onerous and hostile in its laws. However a signficant and rather irritating flaw exists in current PA law that arbitrarily, and rather foolishly, excludes use of self loading (gas operated, semi auto, etc.) rifles for all purposes of hunting large game, small game, furbearing, and pest species. This specific distinction and exclusion does not exist in the vast majority of other states' hunting laws, and in fact PA is the only state at all to do so entirely. It excludes the use of many of the most popular and familiar models sold today, a sizeable majority of what newer generation owners buy and overwhelmingly prefer for recreational and sport shooting, and in every other state in the country, hunting. (This information can be found in several National Shooting Sports Foundation studies from the past few years, taken in observance of the remarkable increase in gun sales overall.) The current prohibition has produced a harmful divide that is alienating many from enjoying hunting at all, most notably younger people and those otherwise new to the shooting and outdoor sports who are vital for continuing the sport, its industry and its culture, and a vast number of shooting sports competitors such as myself. As you are no doubt aware, hunting contributes greatly to the state and local economies, and in the current situation we cannot afford impediments to any economic success we can get, and in the case of the specific rifle restriction, a needless and altogether absurd stumbling block that benefits no one.

Like hundreds of thousands others in this state and tens of millions nationwide, I am a proud owner and enthusiast of modern rifles, that is, rifles based on designs from the 1940's to 60's to the present. They are adaptable designs, with parts which can be interchaged to fit different purposes and individual users quickly and efficiently, offering considerably more use than those which are not. They are mechanically interesting with fascinatingly precise and intricate designs with significant historical background to their development. Such a masterpiece of engineering and industrial achievement is an almost indescribable joy to hold in one's hands and orchestrate its function. The use, maintenance, and adaptive modification of these offers an engaging hobby in and of itself, much the same way as classic cars, guitars, motorcycles, fishing lures and fly tying, and custom computers. Great variety can often be with a single rifle with an assortment of complementary part sets: those based on Eugene Stoner's familiar design which has been the current US service rifle since the 1960's can change from casual range use to time based short distance competition, medium to long range precision, to small game hunting, to home defense, to pest control, to medium game hunting, with the simple change of parts. Thus I have use for my rifles of choice all year round, increasing proficiency and familiarity. Enthusiasts like myself here in the state, many times more in total nationwide, keep numerous PA manufacturers active and flourishing, such as Geissele Automatics in North Wales, W. C. Wolff in Newtown Square, IWI in Harrisburg, Rebel Arms in East Stroudsburg, Evolution Gun Works in Quakertown, and Lancer Systems in Allentown—all to utilize and enhance the benefits of contemporary rifle designs towards those implementations. It is a much more intimate, cherished relationship with one's instruments of this nature than that of a less interesting type with less diversified use.

While I own manually operated pre-modern era designed rifles also, I own far fewer and have purchased none new, and have little to no incentive to do so in the future. In contrast with modern designs, older types are usually stuck with a single use, one fixed size and configuration, unless modified by expensive and time consuming labor by a gunsmith, to which thereupon being confined to until more time and expense is input yet again. Many simply don't bother, and often times there is a tendency of those with less versatility to be callously shoved in a closet, cabinet, rack, or vault to be touched maybe only a handful of days a year at best then largely neglected and forgotten— a disgraceful mistreatment which is antithetical to skillful use and care. I think you will find it not difficult to see the advantage, therefore, in increased skill and safety by use of more enjoyed, more frequently used, and more familiar rifles of choice.

In that proper context we should then see the matter of opportunity at hand. House Bill 366 and/or 223 would do much to encourage an influx of enthusiasts and talent to the sport of hunting in PA. It allows for use of our commonly enjoyed rifles using the same calibers already commonly used for that purpose. It affords significant benefit to farmers: elevated interest in hunting pest species by increasing means to do so would be a considerable gain to them at no added expense or tradeoff. With the increased opportunities to existing rifle owners, who will then of course probably spend a little more than previously given yet more use for existing inventory, doubtless others will then see advantages of them and then purchase for themselves what had previously been outside the scope of their intended purposes. Again, in this economy, we need to sell as much of anything American made as we can, and this particular solution presents itself completely without tradeoff or downside.

Objections to inclusion of modern rifle designs for lawful hunting in PA usually arise from slurs directed at their ownership and use in general, and almost invariably fall into categories of ignorant groupthink, Luddite mentality, crude socially biased stereotyping, irrational phobia and superstition, and trite parroted cliches absent of individual investigation or even deliberate thought. Quite honestly, I should hope that people present here would be above even repeating such nonsense much less considering it as useful or relevent in decision making, but for the sake of thoroughness I'll address some of it. The typical claim that the status quo maintains safety is inexcusably ignorant at best and blatantly dishonest, given the experience of the rest of the states compiled over decades having no indication at all that semi auto rifles in use account for any elevated or disproportional incidence of accidents or incidents. The concurrently often used excuse, typically wielded equally as a pejorative, that those who prefer semi auto rifles do so for purposes of carelessly launching multiple shots to compensate for lack of aim or aptitude, is as absurd as it is insulting. Tireless effort over dozens to hundreds of hours and nearly endless amounts of money are invested towards precise handling and accuracy by people such as myself—hardly at all the venture of reckless halfwitted fools. Were accuracy and discipline not common to those utilizing them, and indeed seen as inherently the better choices for achieving it, you would not see the national championships of rifle marksmanship almost exclusively shot with them. But yet if we were to focus on careless misuse, then it should be honestly addressed as exactly that and nothing other as a rarity and not the norm. Reckless discharge of a firearm in any event or circumstance is a crime—we need to consistently punish individuals guilty of it, rather than assume it of everyone much in the same manner as racial profiling. If one form of prejudice is considered offensive and unacceptable, I would invite you to be consistent on the matter, and apply the concept of diversity of choice to the topic at hand.

The criticism that modern rifle designs aren't traditional for field use and thus should remain excluded because they have been is similarly hollow and grossly ignorant. Rifle designs have evolved for the better rather than being tethered in place as if the world would end should anything “not traditional” at that point were to be tried. Indeed we are a state/commonwealth immersed in its history, and we have seen the move from smoothbore musket of the 1700's, to the flintlock of the 1760's, to rifled percussion cap of the 1850's to single shot metallic cartridge of the 1860's to lever action rifle of the 1870's to bolt action of the 1890's and 1900's, all without the absurd lament that somehow tradition was being defiled. If we are to take it that developments and innovation should be excluded from use on the basis that such were not used in times before, none of your offices would be using telephones, computers, air conditioning, or lightbulbs because previously in history they weren't.

Our country's founders made the decision right down the road in Philadelphia to separate from the British crown after a over a century of rule-- quite a radical departure from what was then considered tradition, don't you think?

The boorish derogatory remark, usually from the uneducated, of “That's a military gun” (or worse, the “AW” term, equally ignorant and vile as a racial slur and bearing the same intention) conveniently forgets that every currently utilized rifle design was in fact first intended for military use, employed as such for a decade or more, then continued for use thereafter as a “sporting rifle” as a byproduct, not the other way around. So the distinction between one era's gun and another in terms of what is “sporting” and a “weapon of war” is specious at best given that there is no line drawn in the first place. Anyone here like M&M's? That was intended as a ration of chocolate for soldiers in World War 2—care to give them up because they were invented for war? How about canned food? Thank Napoleon for improving them to what we know today. As clearly it isn't a requirement that one be a French soldier with poor hygenie habits to enjoy the use thereof, I doubt you'd seriously consider half the contents of your pantry or mine unnecessary and forego them as well. We enjoy the benefits of developments of history, encorporating them into what we know thereafter as familiar, enjoyable, and soon enough almost indespensible to life as we know it.

I invite you to help expand the opportunities for our sportsmen, our economy, our youth, and our culture—all at no cost, no downside, no risk, no tradeoff, just removal of an obstacle. HB 366 and/or 223 needs to get moving and get signed into law to benefit everyone as mentioned above, and there is absolutely no reason for anything other than full support without delay.

[WhiteFeather]

Happy Flag day

here is the June 2015 FOAC newsletter the see link about HB 366

If your not a member a FOAC at least sign up for news alerts so you know in advance of what is coming that is going to effect you Especially things like ITAR.

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Arms,

This Sunday, June 14, is the FOAC General Membership meeting (Scott Twp. Municipal Building) and this meeting will feature a special program involving a presentation from advocates for a Constitutional Convention! We have set aside 1 hour to discuss this issue so everyone will have full opportunity to absorb the information presented. Please understand that this does ‘not’ mean that FOAC is supportive of this concept but we felt it important for all members to get a chance to hear both sides of this issue as well as the opportunity to ask questions of those who advocate this approach. Please try to attend this meeting and bring your questions and concerns!!!

Because of the Primary Election and the upcoming budget issues in Harrisburg there has been little movement on 2nd Amendment and Freedom issues. That does ‘not’ mean the legislation has slowed from being introduced in either the PA House (https://foac-pac.org/Proposed-Pennsy...se-Legislation) or the PA Senate (https://foac-pac.org/Proposed-Pennsy...te-Legislation)!

There will be a hearing on HB 366 (Semi-Auto Firearms for Hunting) in front of the PA House Game & Fisheries Committee. Our testimony can be viewed at this link!
https://foac-pac.org/uploads/Testimo...-Hunting-C.pdf

The Federal legal, legislative and bureaucratic front is a totally different story. The FOAC website has numerous articles (a selection is below) on these issues! The two big ones are the Cowardice of the U.S. Supreme Court in stopping the erosion of the landmark rulings in the Heller and McDonald decisions by lower courts ‘and’ the proposed rulemaking, by the State Department (vis-à-vis Obama) on the export regulations as covered by ITAR.

Obama Attacks Free Speech and Gun Owners through the State Department

It is clear that Obama is unlikely to get Congress to adopt his socialist controls on the 2nd Amendment! This does NOT mean he has given up, far from it, and recently the State Department has proposed rulemaking concerning the Arms Export Control Act – otherwise known as ITAR.

If an anti-gun president, like Obama, wanted to use a long standing preexisting statute to implement comprehensive gun control -- the first thing the anti - gun president would do is recodify the regulations, with slight modifications.

This proposed rulemaking will have, at a minimum, a chilling effect on the free and open exchange of ideas on firearms. What these regulations would do is to define “export” to include potentially any gun-related communication on the Internet or social media. This crosses a broad spectrum of concerns from websites prohibiting even talking about things such as reloading, firearms modifications, designs or even maintenance issues to virtually ‘any’ technical data. In fact, these regulations are so broad that it could potentially include virtually any gun-related communication of a functional “how to” nature.

The key to this is the re-definition of what communication is an “Export” that triggers the requirement of the State Department approval, which is expanded dramatically in these regs. The term “export” would be expanded to include “making technical data available via a publicly available network (e.g., the Internet).” This is wholly new language. It is critical to note that anyone who did this could face decades in prison and massive fines. It is also critical to note what this provision does and does not say: It does not require that the technical data be made available to the public for the illegality to occur. It applies to all private communications, so long as the “network” (e.g., the Internet) is, in general, publicly available.

If there’s one unbreakable rule in politics, it’s that, when drafters take the time and effort to add a provision to the underlying text, it is never, never, ever without reason, AND, if there’s a second unbreakable rule, it’s that the drafters will inexorably lie and say they’re “only codifying current law.”

By implementing these regulatory changes the Obama Administration would have the regulatory authority to comprehensively regulate, and punish, gun-related speech in cyberspace, to whatever extent it desires!

Here’s what YOU can do!

First: Public comments will be accepted on the proposed Orwellian State Department regulatory change through August 3, 2015. Get your friends, family and fellow gun owners to submit comments against the State Department rulemaking proposal and you can do this online at http://www.regulations.gov/#!home or you can submit your comments by e-mail at DDTCPublicComments@state.gov. Please make sure that you put in the subject line of your e-mail, ‘‘ITAR Amendment—Revisions to Definitions; Data Transmission and Storage.”

The link to the ITAR issue is- http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2015-0019-0001

Second: Write to the PA U.S. Congressmen and U.S. Senators (you can find them at this link https://foac-pac.org/Federal-Legislator-Info) and ask them to ‘oppose’ this proposed rulemaking http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...2015-0019-0001 (which is found in the Federal Register) and shows the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) proposal to violate the Bill of Rights and Free Speech.

Your continued perseverance and strength in standing by our freedoms and a responsible government are the only things standing in the way of the anti-gun groups and irresponsible legislators who seek a larger and more intrusive government!

Yours in freedom!

PS Happy Flag Day and Father’s Day to all the hard working Dads!!!

Kim Stolfer, Pres.

Firearms Owners Against Crime
The links below will show you a glimpse into some of the information available on the FOAC website regarding activities that are occurring across the country regarding firearms issues:

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[Swamp Fox]

Is this from the meeting today?

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworl...615-story.html