SB 737 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

[rwilson452]

Not of us old guys are fudds. I was hoping to get in the woods with my M1 Garand. Just for nostalgia. It was the first rifle I trained on in the Navy. I recently bought an M1A. I would have used it too. The M1A is close to the M14 I used last in the Navy. My brother-in-law could not understand why I bought an AR-15 "Why get one, you can't hunt with it?" He just didn't understand why anyone would get a gun you can't hunt with. If he was surveyed I'm sure he would be against using a semi-auto. I'm against using a .223 for deer. for the average hunter. It is my thought that unless you can get an excellent shot placement with a .223 you shouldn't use it. My favorite deer rifle is a 30-06 or 308.

[Yoder]

I have no problem with a .223 for deer. Ammo is not the same is it was 20 years ago. I don't think there will be any more wounded deer than usual. I don't think a 30-30 is an awesome round for deer either but I'm sure more deer have been wounded and not found by it than any other cartridge out there. What would you rather have, a guy with a 30-30 that shoots his gun once a year before going out in the woods or a guy that shoots a couple hundred rounds a year out of his AR? Even if they do put a caliber restriction I would be ok with it, but I don't think it's necessary.

[dkf]

Out of the people I know almost all of them are for hunting deer with semi autos. The only one I know otherwise is our one friends father in-law who is staunchly opposed to it. He is attempting get others to join him in banning semi autos of any kind at their hunting club. Yet he is one of those people who has emptied his gun at running and not hit a damn thing. Also he is a greedy dick so his opinion shouldn't count.

My dad is on the fence about allowing it for deer, on one hand he has no problems with people using semis and would probably pick up a BAR to use. His main concern is the amount of people that would start opening day with .223's loaded up with whatever was cheapest at the gun shop on Black Friday. Alternatively there are the people go the other way and buy the most expensive varmint ammo they can find and assume it will work for deer. This would lead to a large number of injured and lost deer, not because of spray and pray like the Fudds claim, but simply because they are using a cartridge that requires selective shot placement outside of their capabilities.

For example my brother has a friend that sighted his rifle with 150gr FMJ cause it was cheap then picked up some green boxes before coming to hunt with us. He shot at a deer 50 yards away which we spent 45 minutes trying to find before determining he missed. To top it off he wouldn't bother checking to see how far off his gun was on Sunday while we were target shooting. Along with that my cousin fired 4 shots at deer up to 50 yards away and managed to only hit 1 and it wasn't a very good hit. Hunters like this is what concerns me, the guy that dials his carbine in with 70gr TSX and waits for the right opportunity is what I wish more hunters were like.

Looking at our group of people as a reference I would take a guess that 2/3's of hunters don't have the skill it takes to effectively use a .223 to harvest deer. While it sucks that big game was so causally tossed away I'm going to say that it will be back in a year or two most likely with a caliber restriction for the exact reasons above.

The problem with that is smaller centerfire cartridges than .223 (and .223 too) have been legal to use for big game in PA for a LOT of years. I'll agree that .223 isn't the greatest deer round out there, though there are some bullets available that make it perform rather well on deer. Look at it this way. Guys whom take their recoil sensitive kid hunting or the old guy with the bad shoulder can use a larger caliber than a 22-250 or .243 in a semi due to the reduced recoil of the semi. Plus several of the semis are just easier to shoot due the adjustability and how quick they are to adjust to different sized shooters. I have an AR-15 in .458socom (think 45-70 out of a 16" barrel) so I would use that over 5.56. There has to be 50 or close to 50 cartridges chambered for the AR15 alone.

[unclejumbo]

Out of the people I know almost all of them are for hunting deer with semi autos. The only one I know otherwise is our one friends father in-law who is staunchly opposed to it. He is attempting get others to join him in banning semi autos of any kind at their hunting club. Yet he is one of those people who has emptied his gun at running and not hit a damn thing. Also he is a greedy dick so his opinion shouldn't count.

My dad is on the fence about allowing it for deer, on one hand he has no problems with people using semis and would probably pick up a BAR to use. His main concern is the amount of people that would start opening day with .223's loaded up with whatever was cheapest at the gun shop on Black Friday. Alternatively there are the people go the other way and buy the most expensive varmint ammo they can find and assume it will work for deer. This would lead to a large number of injured and lost deer, not because of spray and pray like the Fudds claim, but simply because they are using a cartridge that requires selective shot placement outside of their capabilities.

For example my brother has a friend that sighted his rifle with 150gr FMJ cause it was cheap then picked up some green boxes before coming to hunt with us. He shot at a deer 50 yards away which we spent 45 minutes trying to find before determining he missed. To top it off he wouldn't bother checking to see how far off his gun was on Sunday while we were target shooting. Along with that my cousin fired 4 shots at deer up to 50 yards away and managed to only hit 1 and it wasn't a very good hit. Hunters like this is what concerns me, the guy that dials his carbine in with 70gr TSX and waits for the right opportunity is what I wish more hunters were like.

Looking at our group of people as a reference I would take a guess that 2/3's of hunters don't have the skill it takes to effectively use a .223 to harvest deer. While it sucks that big game was so causally tossed away I'm going to say that it will be back in a year or two most likely with a caliber restriction for the exact reasons above.

Why does everyone make the assumption that most will hunt with 5.56/.223 in a semi for deer when that isn't a popular caliber for deer otherwise? Yes, ARs are popular and their most common caliber is 5.56. However, there are many other calibers in AR pattern rifles that are more appropriate for deer and would likely be chosen. There are AKs and SKSs that are appropriate in 7.62. There are a host of other semi-auto rifle in a range of calibers.

As I posted on the PGC Facebook page, why is that every swinging dick thinks that only he and his close friends are ethical, conscientious hunters? The vast majority of hunters will continue to do things the right way and a small percentage of dickheads will continue on that path.

[mpan72]

Why does everyone make the assumption that most will hunt with 5.56/.223 in a semi for deer when that isn't a popular caliber for deer otherwise? Yes, ARs are popular and their most common caliber is 5.56. However, there are many other calibers in AR pattern rifles that are more appropriate for deer and would likely be chosen. There are AKs and SKSs that are appropriate in 7.62. There are a host of other semi-auto rifle in a range of calibers.

As I posted on the PGC Facebook page, why is that every swinging dick thinks that only he and his close friends are ethical, conscientious hunters? The vast majority of hunters will continue to do things the right way and a small percentage of dickheads will continue on that path.

I bought an SKS recently. One of the reasons was that I may be able to hunt with it. Maybe next season. I am still on the fence about getting a license for 2017/2018.
I also wondered how many would hunt with an AR in 223./5.56. If someone is a good shot I don't see the problem. Knowing the limitations of any caliber is important but If semis get approved I think .223 will get more than a few deer in the freezer. I don't think there will be any more lost wounded deer than with other calibers. All the doomsayers bring up bs claims that have not been substantiated in other states that have approved semis for hunting big game. It is almost like they would not support a persons right to bare arms if they did not agree with the arms being bared.

[Solaran_X]

I have no problem with a .223 for deer. Ammo is not the same is it was 20 years ago. I don't think there will be any more wounded deer than usual. I don't think a 30-30 is an awesome round for deer either but I'm sure more deer have been wounded and not found by it than any other cartridge out there. What would you rather have, a guy with a 30-30 that shoots his gun once a year before going out in the woods or a guy that shoots a couple hundred rounds a year out of his AR? Even if they do put a caliber restriction I would be ok with it, but I don't think it's necessary.

If a 77gr SMK OTM Mk262 round is fatal against a human being at 800+ meters...I'm pretty sure the same round at 100 meters in Pennsylvania woods will kill a deer quickly and humanely. Ammo today is definitely not the ammunition it was 20 years ago.

[CMP703006]

Why does everyone make the assumption that most will hunt with 5.56/.223 in a semi for deer when that isn't a popular caliber for deer otherwise? Yes, ARs are popular and their most common caliber is 5.56. However, there are many other calibers in AR pattern rifles that are more appropriate for deer and would likely be chosen. There are AKs and SKSs that are appropriate in 7.62. There are a host of other semi-auto rifle in a range of calibers.

As I posted on the PGC Facebook page, why is that every swinging dick thinks that only he and his close friends are ethical, conscientious hunters? The vast majority of hunters will continue to do things the right way and a small percentage of dickheads will continue on that path.

It's not that I think everyone will hunt deer with a .223 AR or even that it's an issue to do so. It's the ignorant people doing so that concerns me. The other types of firearms, AR-10, SKS, M1A generally are better suited for deer and the people who own them tend to be more knowledgeable. After all the assault weapons ban talk just about every Tom, Dick and Harry has an AR-15 of some type and some of those people think "well if Joe farmer can kill one with a .22 LR I can do it with my AR". On one hand they may be terrible hunters to start with or may have decided to jump into it since they own an AR which is now legal to hunt with. Either way their attempt to use an AR-15 to harvest a deer is outside of their capabilities which could lead to more wounded or lost deer.

As for everyone but my friends being terrible hunters, I'd say the majority our group are ethical hunters. The other 10% are not but they only hunt once a year and never practice which shows in their performance in the field. This I imagine is representative of our general hunting population here in PA. I don't believe that allowing semis for big game would cause much if any issues, definitely not the woods filled with lead that we keep hearing about. However the concern is still there in regards to the ignorant slob hunters trying to take deer with a .223 when it is outside of there capability to do so.

I still think it should have passed.

[Yoder]

Right now you can hunt with a .223. I would imagine people using it are recoil sensitive or kids. Kids have almost no chance at a follow up shot with a bolt gun. Usually the gun is heavy and awkward for them. An AR allows for a second shot and is also adjustable to the shooter. My kids loved shooting my AR's and could handle them well. They had a lot harder time with my other rifles. If you don't practice, use crap ammo and wound deer it's because you are incompetent not a caliber problem.

[BobGun]

My 14 year old shoots my Ruger 44 mag semi very well. She wanted to start hunting with it. My only bolt or lever guns are .30 caliber which she does not shoot very well do to the weight of the firearm and the recoil. I cannot see any reason she should not be able to hunt with the Ruger.

[RockIsland]

Why does everyone make the assumption that most will hunt with 5.56/.223 in a semi for deer when that isn't a popular caliber for deer otherwise?

Because they are ignorant to, or unwilling to examine the facts, and incapable of critical thinking and using logic.

A lot like this schmuck and his komrades.