Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Cumberland County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    Is that 5 rounds in the gun, or 5 + 1? Good luck finding a 4 round mag for any gun.
    ...and the hits just keep on coming. #MAGA

  2. #12
    Join Date
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    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    http://www.brownells.com/magazines/r...prod31788.aspx

    5 round mag by Armalite for AR-10 listed...

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Washington, Pennsylvania
    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    Quote Originally Posted by kmrcstintn View Post
    http://www.brownells.com/magazines/r...prod31788.aspx

    5 round mag by Armalite for AR-10 listed...
    Yup, they exist, but again:

    "They also don't stick out of the magazine well, and can sometimes require a tool to remove. 10 rounders are much more manageable."

    There are also AR10s that use SR25 pattern magazines. I don't know of a 5 round magazine for these rifles, though a 10 round Magpul PMag can be converted. Still, we shouldn't have to go through these hoops.
    Instead, if anything, just limit the amount that can actually be filled, thereby possibly reducing the "temptation" to let loose on a running deer.
    Personally, I prefer no limits, but whatever. Add long as I can use my AR-10 and AR-15 to hunt. Magazine capacity, whatever. Maybe a battle for another day.
    Last edited by masakarijoe; February 11th, 2015 at 09:26 PM.
    PUT AN ACOG ON IT!

  4. #14
    Join Date
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    Palmyra, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    whatever floats yer boat; the 4 round mags for my dad's (bequeathed to me) Remington 760 can be difficult to remove, but I live with it...later!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    Lancer makes 5-round AR10 magazines, and they seem to have a forward area for gripping to remove them from the magazine well (although I thought magazines were supposed to drop free...all my PMAGs and USGI and Glock magazines drop free - only my Korean copy Beta doesn't).

    And what would be stopping you from pinning a cheap AR10 magazine to 5 rounds?

    Granted, I would love for a higher than 5 round capacity for hunting. 10 seems great. Although as I said - this is hunting, and hunting isn't covered by self defense. Baby steps. Go for the semiautomatic hunting with 5 round limit first. And once its been in place for a couple years with no "predicted" (by the Fudds) increase in causalities during hunting season, push for 10 rounds.

    We lost so much ground that exact same way - by baby steps. And we'll never get it back in one chunk. We need to get it back the same way we lost it - baby steps.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    Getting the thread back to the subject, I sent this today:

    "Dear Representative,

    The measure is intended to pass the right to hunt in Pennsylvania with semi automatic rifles, many of those I have spoken with at various outdoor events and shows, as well as my local Sportsman club in Fishing Creek support this measure.

    Currently we are one of two states in the union which do not permit it, the other being Delaware, which has a considerable population density compared to the vast majority of Pennsylvania country side.

    Not only will your vote help Pennsylvania sportsman in an effort to curtail the vast influx of coyotes and feral hogs, it will protect many animals that cannot defend themselves from these predators, particularly the young.

    It will also help bolster our second amendment rights in an area of the northeast United States where many regulations have been imposed over the past five or so years that limit people to protect themselves and their loved ones.

    Please vote "Yes to HB366 and lets move Pennsylvania into the 21st century.

    Sincerely,
    "North of I-80, we don't dial 911, we dial 223"

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    south western PA, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    FOAC’s A-Team was in HBG lobbying for this bill and we picked up a couple of extra co-sponsors on HB 366.

    We Hand delivered paperwork with a request to co-sponsor to everyone on Game and Fish committee and the Reps we actually got to speak with almost all co-sponsored, still more friction is needed to make this wheel squeak.

    IF you want the choice to hunt with semi-auto rifles in PA just like hunter do in 48 others states.


    PLEASE do YOUR PART,
    Especially call and contact the reps on the Game and Fish committee
    that are not co-sponsor see OP for the list of Reps.


    For talking points here is the text that was passed out to the reps


    Hunting with Semi-auto Firearms HB 366

    Consider Co-sponsoring Rep Rick Saccone’s Hunting with Semiautomatic Firearms (HB 366) legalizing the use of semi auto firearms for hunting in PA as currently 48 of 50 states now do.

    Only the states of Delaware and PA still prohibit the use of semi-auto firearms for hunting.

    Rep Saccone's proposed legislation, if passed, would not automatically allow these semi-auto firearms to be used for hunting, but would simply give the PA Game Commission (PGC) the authority to regulate and allow the use of such semi-auto firearms during specific seasons or for specific species as they currently do for semi-auto shotguns and all types of hunting firearms in order to properly manage our various game species.

    Currently the PGC does allow disabled hunters with amputation of a hand or both hands to use semi-auto firearms for hunting. There have been zero enforcement problems.

    Other than Delaware, ALL of the other states directly adjoining PA allow the use of semi-auto firearms for hunting.

    *Points to consider regarding our advocacy of legalizing semi-auto firearms for all especially youth, women and even older male hunters.

    • Semi-Automatic firearms attenuate recoil. One big downside to manually operated firearms, when compared to a semi-automatic rifle is felt recoil. Larger calibers, including 30-06 on up, generate significant recoil that average shooters may not tolerate well. Gas-operated semi-autos softens this recoil.

    • Faster follow up shots. Semi-auto firearms provide for faster reloading for follow-up shots. Combining less recoil, which limits muzzle jump with faster reloading providing hunters the opportunity to get the sights and/or crosshairs back on target for a second or third shot, should it be required, and the semi-auto firearm wins out over manually operated actions for the humane harvesting of game. (reduced recoil and follow up shot is why semi-auto shotguns are so popular)

    • Many of these same semi-auto firearms also have adjustable stocks and pistol grips that make them more user friendly again for young hunters, woman and hunters in general.

    • Greater choices in the use of firearms will encourage out of state hunters to reconsider PA as a choice to make for their hard earned dollars and hunting season selection.

    This is a sampling of the reasons for allowing PA become the 49th state to allow semi-auto firearms for hunting as this change will retain and help recruit new hunters to carry on the all of recreational activity that hunting provides.

    We respectfully request that you consider adding your support, by co-sponsoring, this highly desirable upgrade to PA hunters firearm choices as hunters in 48 other states now enjoy.




    Our research shows that of the 48 states that allow semi-auto firearms for hunting (i.e. predators, elk, moose, deer, antelope, bear and small game hunting) that 17 out of 48 states had some magazine capacity restrictions for hunting, out of those 10 states had 5 round limitations (one was less at 3 rounds) as proposed in Rep Saccone’s legislations (including NJ)

    Listed below are the semi-auto rifle hunting regulation for the 5 states that adjoin PA

    Before New York SAFE Act passage the limit was 10 rounds for semi-auto. Limit now is 6 rounds -- http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28182.html
    • with any semi-automatic firearm with a capacity to hold more than 6 rounds, EXCEPT the following semi-automatic firearms:
    1. firearms using .22 or .17 caliber rimfire ammunition, or
    2. firearms altered to reduce their capacity to no more than 6 shells at one time in the magazine and chamber combined, or
    3. autoloading pistols with a barrel length of less than eight inches.

    Maryland (not known to be gun owner friendly) allows semi-auto firearms for hunting http://www.eregulations.com/maryland...m-regulations/
    Rifle Regulations
    • Firearms used for deer and bear hunting may not have an ammunition clip loaded with more than 8 cartridges or bullets. If a clip has the capacity to hold more than 8 rounds, the clip does not have to be physically blocked, but no more than 8 cartridges or bullets may be loaded.

    New Jersey allows the use of semi-auto firearms for hunting even if they are subject to stringent levels of gun control regulations. -- http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2014/dighnt22-33.pdf
    A modern rifle magazine need not be pinned (plugged), but may be loaded with no more than three cartridges. Rife permit holders of all ages may hunt with all rifle types as allowed by New Jersey laws.

    • Ohio has no magazine capacity limit for semi-auto rifles --even if you can’t hunt deer with modern center fire rifles. http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/hunting-...ting-equipment

    West Virginia has no magazine capacity limit for hunting with semi-auto firearms
    http://www.wvdnr.gov/hunting/hunting_regs.shtm

    Important note: For DECADES the PA Game Commission has allowed semi-auto shotguns with rifle slugs (accurate out to 200 yards) for special regulations areas for hunting deer and small game. Hunters using these semi-auto firearms are not causing problems in urban areas now. They won’t anywhere else in PA either!
    Learn how to really SUPPORT the 2nd Amendment cause Go To http://www.foac-pac.org/

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    (Washington County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    Can you post a list of the best people to contact to push for this? That would help. Thanks
    PUT AN ACOG ON IT!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    south western PA, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    Quote Originally Posted by masakarijoe View Post
    Can you post a list of the best people to contact to push for this? That would help. Thanks
    See Post # 2 in this thread !

    CALL everyone on the Game & Fish committee especially the chairman and ask them to co-sponsor HB 366

    Also there is batch emails to contact all the Reps that are most likely to co sponsor.


    IF you want this freedom to choose you got to speak up!
    Learn how to really SUPPORT the 2nd Amendment cause Go To http://www.foac-pac.org/

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    somewhere, Pennsylvania
    (Berks County)
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    Default Re: HB 366 allow Hunting with Semi automatic Rifles in PA – Rep Saccone 2015-2016

    WhiteFeather,

    This effort/issue has been discussed at length here on PAFOA, so I have to ask the obvious questions.

    First, are the farmers/landowners on board? To date they've been the single largest impediment to this bill (and the Sunday hunting bill) being made law.

    Second, we now have a new problem with Wolf in office. So, what are FOAC's goals as far as voting support? We're very likely going to need enough votes to override a veto to get this done. Does FOAC even consider this possible or realistic? If not, we should be focusing on other pro-2A legislative efforts; there's no shortage of them.

    Wolf will almost definitely veto this bill, because:

    - He's not pro-gun.

    - He will see a veto as cheap and easy publicity. This is an issue which the media will jump on; it's easy to make 2A supporters look bad on this issue.

    "Semi-auto hunting? Blood will run red!"
    "Hunters will be killing each other!"
    "Innocent joggers and park-goers will be shot!"
    "The game lands and private land will sound like a war zone!"

    - The media attention will additionally split our ranks, making any chance of swaying opinion for this effort with legislators or the governor more difficult. History has shown that, sadly, the so-called "traditional" hunters (FUDDs for those who identify with the more derogatory term) are all too willing to sell supporters of this effort down the river, because they don't fit with the traditional hunting ideology.

    "Why is it necessary?"
    "If you need more than one bullet, you're not a REAL hunter."
    "Hunting will become a 'spray-and-pray' sport."

    Note that I do wholeheartedly support this effort, and I have will be contacting my representatives to urge their support. I think the best way to preserve the hunting culture in PA is to allow those who didn't come from a traditional hunting family or background to use the firearms they have to hunt. These non-hunters are typically those who started out buying military or tactical style weapons, and they should be able to use them to hunt without having to spend lots of money to try out a new sport.

    However, I think this effort will face a lot of resistance. I'm not exactly sure how to address the issues mentioned above, but I'm curious if FOAC has already considered these concerns.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by ChamberedRound; March 5th, 2015 at 03:29 PM.
    "Political Correctness is just tyranny with manners"
    -Charlton Heston

    "[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
    -James Madison, Federalist Papers, No. 46.

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy." [sic]
    -John Quincy Adams

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
    -Thomas Jefferson

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