non-res PA LTCF

**DaveInMD** · July 10th, 2008, 02:54 PM

Hello all, I'm a first time gun owner and have a couple of quick questions. Sorry if they're repeats. I'm a resident of Maryland (sucks, I know), and go to Lehigh University in Lehigh County PA. I'm currently taking a basic firearms class down here in anticipation of taking a personal safety / home protection class. I own a .40 Sig P229.

I saw that Center county is where I should apply for a LTCF. On the form, it asks for a photo copy of my home state's carry license. I do not have a CCW permit from MD or any other state (planning on getting a Utah or Florida permit in coming months). What do I need to do? Does my school box (not a P.O. box, it's a campus post office) count as a technical PA residence (I am actually registered to vote from this address)? In the next month I'll be renting an appt for the upcoming school year, does it count?

Also, I've been trying to educate myself more and more on the current state laws. I've read the leaflet and see OC is legal in PA without a LTCF. Is it possible to transport a handgun in a vehicle and then OC when walking around? I know you are only allowed to transport a firearm unloaded, not accessible, and to and from allowed locations. Does this prohibit you from driving somewhere with the intent of OC while not in your car? If not, what is the proper/acceptable way to load your gun in public?

sorry for the lengthy post,
-Dave

oh, can anyone recommend a good indoor range in the Lehigh Valley area?

**LittleRedToyota** · July 10th, 2008, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by DaveInMD

On the form, it asks for a photo copy of my home state's carry license. I do not have a CCW permit from MD or any other state (planning on getting a Utah or Florida permit in coming months). What do I need to do?

unfortunately, PA will not issue a non-resident license if your home state issues licenses and you do not have one. this is a problem with our law given that some states (like MD) technically do issue licenses, but in reality do not actually issue them.

Does my school box (not a P.O. box, it's a campus post office) count as a technical PA residence? In the next month I'll be renting an appt for the upcoming school year, does it count?

i don't think that will fly.

the good news, though, is that you will be able to carry in PA with a UT or FL license, so just get one of those.

Is it possible to transport a handgun in a vehicle and then OC when walking around? I know you are only allowed to transport a firearm unloaded, not accessible, and to and from allowed locations. Does this prohibit you from driving somewhere with the intent of OC while not in your car?

yes, unfortunately, it does prevent that. you pretty much effectively cannot legally carry anywhere in PA that you cannot walk to from your home unless you have a carry license.

again, though, if you get a UT or FL license, all these problems will go away.

**DaveInMD** · July 10th, 2008, 03:28 PM

just thought of another snag. remember seeing somewhere that one of the differences between having PA ltcf and say Utah's is that you cannot carry in K-12 school districts. Lehigh has a couple of k-12 schools right off campus. can anyone shed some more light on this? Will I not be able to walk down the street past the school?

**LittleRedToyota** · July 10th, 2008, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by DaveInMD

just thought of another snag. remember seeing somewhere that one of the differences between having PA ltcf and say Utah's is that you cannot carry in K-12 school districts. Lehigh has a couple of k-12 schools right off campus. can anyone shed some more light on this? Will I not be able to walk down the street past the school?

the PA law says you cannot carry in the actual schools...not in the districts.

you can walk down the street in front of a school carrying. nothing at all illegal about that under state law.

however...technically, you might be in violation of the federal GFSZ act as the exception provided in that law is only for people who are licensed by the state in which the school is located.

i don't think anyone has ever been prosecuted for that, though. but, it is something to keep in mind.

**knight0334** · July 10th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by DaveInMD

just thought of another snag. remember seeing somewhere that one of the differences between having PA ltcf and say Utah's is that you cannot carry in K-12 school districts. Lehigh has a couple of k-12 schools right off campus. can anyone shed some more light on this? Will I not be able to walk down the street past the school?

Per PA law: so long as you dont go onto the school's grounds you would be legal for PA's school law thing.

Per Federal law: if you come within 1000ft of a school, and not be withing one of the exemptions(to/from hunting, target, smith, etc unloaded and secured), and not have a license from the state in which the school is located - you are in violation. Only a PA license will protect you from the federal law while in a school zone within PA.

**DaveInMD** · July 10th, 2008, 03:46 PM

ahh ok. not too worried about the feds giving me a hard time, but i guess you never know.

**pex** · July 11th, 2008, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

the good news, though, is that you will be able to carry in PA with a UT or FL license, so just get one of those.

If you don't want to jump into a UT or FL license, because of having to submit fingerprints or take state-specified training, try a Maine -> New Hampshire combo.

To receive a New Hampshire license, you must have a license/permit, resident or non-resident, from another state. No training, photo, or fingerprints involved, and you just submit a very terse form (much like in PA.) It costs 20-25 USD.

Maine will issue non-resident permits and do not require too much shenanigans. You have to send them a picture, confirm 'some sort' of training (rather than having state-specific or -licensed training) or prove it otherwise, and answer a bunch of yes-nos that go on for 10 pages. It costs 60-85.

UT and FL are nice permits. They get you a lot of states, and some that are a bit closer to NH. NH gets you some states though.

I've always felt the government deserves info on a need to know basis, knowing that they collect and disseminate your info at will. If someone has your prints or you plan to give them out in the near future, and you don't mind spending money to find a specific training, then go for UT or FL.

I think the NH is a nice backup permit to have, especially at 25 bucks a hit for 4 years. Note that they suggest having the 'other' permit revoked (and I have no idea how this would be handled if you had multiple - does one or all need to be revoked?) or suspended is a condition for suspending the NH permit. The NH law kind of makes it look like that suspension is automatic by force of law, but I think that the executive has to take action based on law to officially revoke a permit.